JoNova

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Hydroxychloroquine, a year later, 3 times higher survival rate. Trump was right.

 200mg tablets of Hydroxychloroquine in blister pack.

Photo: Whispyhistory

The world faced the greatest global health crisis in one hundred years, but it’s taken a whole year to write up a small study that shows hydroxychoroquine could improve the survival rate of people on ventilators by a factor of three, and that the dose matters.

If anyone says “but this is not a big study”, that’s exactly my point. Why is it so hard to get a large study of a drug that was already known to be useful against SARS-1 fifteen years before SARS-2 arrived. A drug that even the President of the US was talking about in the earliest days? In January 2020 we already knew that the three drugs that were “fairly effective” were  Remdesivir, Chloroquine and Ritonavir. On February 13, the South Koreans were already recommending hydroxychloroquine and telling us the anti-virals should be “started as soon as possible”. We had that head start, we threw it away.

Apparently the kings-of-compassion in the commentariat would rather see deaths than admit Donald Trump was right. And the experts in Pharmaceutical Giants only cared about the profit line.

And so it comes to pass, finally, that we find out what happened to 255 patients in May 2020 who were treated for Covid in a hospital in New Jersey. Sadly, 78% or 201 patients are described as “expired” — as if they reached their use-by dates. It was that bad. Just 54 survived. Only 3.5% “walked out of the hospital”. These were very sick people.

The research team hunted through the data to try to figure out what was different about the group that survived. But mostly the “alive group” and the “expired group” were similar. The research team considered many different risk factors like their blood pressure, weight, age, and conditions like diabetes. They trawled laboriously through all the medications they were given as well. Convalescent plasma (blood from survivors) was one of the few things that helped, boosting survival by a factor of two. But one drug combination finally stood out even more and that was Hydroxychloroquine and and Azithromycin. (Essentially very similar to The Zelenko protocol).

The WHO, funded by taxpayers in the West, long after these patients were saved, was working to stop HCQ from being used.

WHO messages about Hydroxychloroquine and Covid.

The WHO was busy “helping” to stop people using HCQ.

 

The beneficial effect of HCQ and AZ wasn’t obvious because people had received such different doses, but the higher the dose patients were given, the more likely they were to survive:

Initial lasso and Cox proportional hazard model regression analyses showed
that higher cumulative doses of HCQ were associated with a lower mortality
rate. With every natural log increase in HCQ cumulative dose, patients were
1.12 times less likely to die [p<0.001]. Accordingly, 3,000 mg HCQ cumulative dose had a survival OR = 2.46.

Hydroxychloroqine is a very unusual drug in that our bodies are very slow to get rid of it. The half life is 40 days. Therefore a repeat dose will accumulate for quite a while. So researchers started to look at the cumulative dose and it was the key:

When AZM and HCQ were given together, the association with survival
greater than when HCQ was given alone. We finally noticed that patients,
who received cumulative doses HCQ > 3,000 mg and AZM > 1,000 mg, had a much higher survival rate than all others.

The dose dependent relationship is quite telling. Only 37 patients received the highest level of 3 grams (as a cumulative dose) of HCQ and 1 g of Azithromycin. Of those, 18 survived (48%). Of the 218 patients who got less than that dose, only 36 would survive (16%).

In other words, most patients just didn’t get a high enough dose.

Patients receiving three grams of hydroxychloroquine, and one gram or more of Azithromycin had 3.26 times lower risk of dying. And the researchers then figured that dose per bodymass weight could also be important. They found that people need a dose higher than 80mg/kg.  This is hardly a surprise, since nearly all medicines known to man are dished out on a per kilo basis. The bigger mystery is why other studies did not use HCQ on a per kilo dosage?

Hydroxychloroquine, chemical formula

Despite all the warnings, they found no evidence that HCQ caused the longer QT Boundary side effect that the FDA worried about. Though they also note that the FDA itself didn’t seem too concerned about this effect in 150 other medical trials, only for Covid:

On April 24, 2020, the FDA issued a warning about the possible effects of low HCQ on QTc interval (47). Since 2010, the FDA has approved over 150
clinical trials, which include HCQ treatment. The FDA did and does not
require monitoring for cardiotoxicity. In each of these trials, the total HCQ
dose and expected tissue levels are markedly higher than used or seen in
Covid patients. This discrepancy lacks logic or explanation. 

This is all the more poignant given that after doctors were warned about the long QT risk they reduced doses. Even in this short trial, Smith et al noticed the effect the warnings had.

The decisions to co-administer AZM were made primarily by the ID consultants. The use of AZM with HCQ was more common in the first half of this 6-week period. During mid and late April, AZM was administered less frequently with HCQ. This decrease occurred after reports that HCQ/AZM caused QTc prolongation were published.

And marvel that weight-adjusted doses are standard practice yet no one thought to test HCQ that way?

The trials, which concluded HCQ caused QTc prolongation, did not show
that a dose-based effect. Given the weight range of hospitalized Covid
patients, it is difficult to understand how weight-adjusted dosing was not considered in these reports. At a minimum, the studies on HCQ’s effect on QTc interval in Covid patients need to be redone and the extant data reanalyzed.

The verdict was that past studies on HCQ are so worthless they need to be redone.

Past posts:

REFERENCES

Smith et al (2021) Observational Study on 255 Mechanically Ventilated Covid Patients at the Beginning of the USA Pandemic, doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.05.28.21258012 [PDF]

 

9.5 out of 10 based on 94 ratings

183 comments to Hydroxychloroquine, a year later, 3 times higher survival rate. Trump was right.

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Thanks for interpreting this for those of us not skilled in this area of biology.

    Particularly interesting was the bit;

    “the FDA itself didn’t seem too concerned about this effect in 150 other medical trials, only for Covid:”.

    A good example of “turning a blind eye”.

    Perhaps the “good eye” is focused on something else; money?

    520

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      This is also appears to be analysis of the cited paper i.e. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.28.21258012v1:

      https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx

      “The extensive range of obesity among critically ill patients indicates that weight-adjusted dosage is critical in achieving the correct therapeutic levels. Moreover, AZM is an independent contributor to improved survival.

      “Most importantly, this is the first clinical study to demonstrate the remarkable benefit of using cumulative doses of HCQ>3g/AZM>1g, compared to those not treated with this combination.

      “Why did such a large effect miss observation? For one thing, HCQ produces its benefit by cumulative effects on the target cells, which is weight-dependent. The failure to treat patients with weight-adjusted doses leads to ineffective treatment and outcomes biased towards lighter patients.

      “HCQ is both safe and tolerable at higher doses, as shown in studies of rheumatoid arthritis or lupus. Such high doses for such long durations have not been used to treat COVID-19.

      180

    • #

      Keith – check this data re Ivermectin use in India – NOT anecdotal – Ivermectin works for Covid-19.
      Why has its use been suppressed in the western democracies? More evidence of the huge Covid scam.
      Regards, Allan

      https://joannenova.com.au/wp-content/graph-india-scaled.jpg

      This morning I send another email to our Alberta Premier and Cabinet – it should go to all politicians.
      [excerpt]
      Subject: END HARMFUL LOCKDOWNS NOW – IMMEDIATELY STOP DANGEROUS COVID-19 INJECTIONS TO UNDER-18’S
      I accuse our governments and our health authorities of criminal negligence – you should be put in jail for misleading the public, causing great harm through the imposition of needless lockdowns, the destruction of the economy and our education system and the forced administration of dangerous injections that will have deadly medical consequences, especially for the young. You are acting contrary to the Nuremberg Code; you are guilty of Crimes against Humanity.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Hi Allan,

        That’s a very strong email.

        The big question is, if Australia and Canada are both democracies how can we be in such a mess?

        Here in Australia I look back over the long haul, post world war two, and see nearly three decades of rebuild and hope.

        This has been followed by nearly half a century of growing self interest, growing opportunism and a near fatal political focus on taking and grabbing while they can get away with it.

        Financial accountability was once represented by the Gold Standard but this has been replaced by that wonderful Wall Street invention known as Quantitative Easing.

        Funny money and the race to the bottom _ we are now in a virtual world.

        How the hell do we extricate ourselves from the clutches of The Elites who are enriching themselves and enslaving and coraling us.

        The only thing that gives me hope is that there are people in the U.S. who got away from their media, into their vehicles and drove to Trump Rallies before the last Presidential election.

        They are still there, and I suspect, extremely unhappy.

        Can we duplicate this awareness in the rest of the western world, Brexit, yellow vests are good signs that people are fed up.

        KK

        130

  • #
    TedM

    Yes people died but only sacrificed for such noble political objectives as making Trump look bad bad, and financially benefitting pharmaceutical companies.

    490

  • #
    TedM

    Just how evil some people can be, is beyond my comprehension.

    420

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      A couple years ago I was writing a novel. The challenge I had was I couldn’t write the evil characters in the novel. I just didn’t understand how or why people could be evil.

      After observing for the last couple years, I believe I have an answer to that question…. They just don’t care.

      220

      • #
        John

        Greg, I read somewhere (I wish I could remember the name of the book) many, many years ago, where the author, a medical doctor, said that there was a disconnect in the neural network of violent criminals’ brains to the empathy part of their brain (? anterior insular cortex).
        He concluded that these criminals could never be rehabilitated and society would always be at risk if they were released.

        130

        • #
          StephenP

          A very good book by Robert Sapolsky is Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst.
          It covers the development of the nervous system, the effect of hormones from the womb and afterwards, and the effect on human behaviour.
          Is is a solid read but worth sticking with.

          30

  • #
    TedM

    “the FDA itself didn’t seem too concerned about this effect in 150 other medical trials, only for Covid:”.

    Pretty convincing evidence that their objective was to mislead. Or commit frord.

    350

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    they could not allow a simple answer to this alleged pandemic. Boris Johnson has just announced that the G7 will “build back better” a.k.a. green new deal, Socialism, the great reset.
    we are truly [email protected]#ked now.

    250

  • #
    ColA

    The bigger mystery is why other studies did not use HCQ on a per kilo dosage?

    Jo, the biggest mystry is, given there were real indications and positive results from HCQ and AZM why were these drugs deamonized and shunned?

    When you are fighting a pandemic surely you shoud be investigating ANY drug that has shown +ve results the real investigation now should be why didn’t this happen with HCQ and latter Ivermectin.

    The real question is WHO will investigate the world health organisation and big Pharma and hold them to account?

    470

    • #
      another ian

      They didn’t get their ivermectin from a sheep drench pack.

      The rates there are “bigger animal more dose”

      (/s)

      170

      • #
        Tim

        The rates in sheep and cattle are based on the animals weight. Cattle is 1ml per 10kgs of animal weight. Jo is onto something here, when referring to the dosage and body weight. In cattle the drench has a 3 week effective timeframe for pour ons and I think it is 4 weeks for injectables. Is it perhaps possible that many of the doctors just dont know what they are doing? Just because someone has a phd does mean they are infallable, a point that is lost on most people.

        290

        • #
          another ian

          Tim

          You don’t mention the formulations for internal application. The one we have on hand for sheep is 5 ml for 11 – 20 kg to 20 ml for 70 – 80 kg (0.8 g/l solution)

          80

        • #
          Ross

          When talking doses you have to talk mg active ingredient per kg body weight (or whatever that converts to in US units). Products differ in their active ingredient concentrations. For ivermectin its 0.2 mg of Ivermectin (active ingredient) per kg body weight. That would seem to be the across the board recommendation irrespective of species.

          150

      • #
        MP

        Veterinary science doses everything by Kg of body weight. Ivermectine is one of a group know as Mectines and due to resistance we change to a different type every two years for the cattle, though my mates a vet and as he says a mectine is a mectine, so I just stay with whatever works and is cheaper now.

        110

    • #
      OldOzzie

      The Dosage I sent to my GP was

      dosage

      “A treatment with the hydroxychloroquine combination (200 mg X 3 per days for 10 days) + Azithromycin (500 mg on the 1st day then 250 mg per day for 5 more days)

      As per Article following

      Which works out at Cumulative Dosage 6000mg HCQ and 1750 mg Azithromycin – above the Cumulative Dosage mentioned in Article at top

      patients, who received cumulative doses HCQ > 3,000 mg and AZM > 1,000 mg, had a much higher survival rate than all others.

      130

    • #
      Murray Shaw

      CofA, I use Ivermectin as a sheep and cattle drench, that is another anti-viral that is human use approved that has shown excellent results against Covid, and the dose rate for livestock is on a kilo basis, so why not for human use.

      140

      • #
        another ian

        Ivermectin horse paste seems to be a work around in US – apple flavour gets a mention,

        50

  • #
    Peter C

    The TGA, The Doherty Institute, The National Covid19 Clinical Evidence Task Force, Professor Julian Eliot and the Health Ministers have a lot to answer for.
    https://covid19evidence.net.au/

    230

  • #
    R.B.

    Despite all the warnings, they found no evidence that HCQ caused the longer QT Boundary side effect that the FDA worried about. Though they also note that the FDA itself didn’t seem too concerned about this effect in 150 other medical trials

    There is a 2006 paper,
    Chronic hydroxychloroquine use associated with QT prolongation and refractory ventricular arrhythmia, that seems to have inspired researchers to look for a link

    Case report: A 67-year-old female presented with acquired long QT interval syndrome with a refractory ventricular arrhythmia. She was receiving chronic therapeutic doses of HCQ for the treatment of lupus erythematosus

    Paywalled so no idea of what sort of dosages she received but it is one case likely to have been high doses for way longer than a couple of weeks.

    70

  • #
    Furiously Curious

    On the medical level, are authorities using what amounts to a ‘let it rip’ strategy? They can say, ‘no, no, no, we’re pushing masks and lockdowns’, but they are saying loudly, you will not treat anyone, and we are going for herd immunity by vaccines, which we will get to sometime in the future, and in the meantime suck it up, and who gives a rats about the economy. ??? I could come to that conclusion. The best rational for that I can see is- we’ve never had a usable anti virus, so we wont bother looking for one, even in these dire circumstances, that might spur actual doctors at the coal face, to seek out things they can do for people standing in front of them? Has doctoring reached the state of doctors just being an arm of big pharma, dependent on being handed a drug by a drug company rep, and told when to use it. And the medical profession seems to be ignoring the blood on their face from the oxycontin scandal, where they have managed to rack up a covid like death toll. These are the people saying we are the experts, listen to us?

    210

    • #
      Ronin

      “Has doctoring reached the state of doctors just being an arm of big pharma, dependent on being handed a drug by a drug company rep, and told when to use it.”

      Ummm…… in some cases, yes.

      280

      • #

        Doctors I fear are trapped. They depend on having liability insurance and keeping their license. They are not free to speak, which is why we ought support the few that do.

        When they prescribe drugs they must stay in TGA rules in Australia, and I presume US docs are bound by FDA rules, though I think they get more freedom “off label”. (It would be good if some of our medical readers could advise here, and private emails would be fine. Please send to joanne AT this domain.).

        A doctor won’t face liability charges for doing what official agencies say, or probably not for doing what “most doctors do”, but as soon as they stray into lonely territory they may lose their house, their practice…

        330

        • #
          Analitik

          This.
          The fact that people in the US have had to mount legal challenges in order to have ivermectin administered to their relatives is a sad example.

          140

        • #

          Our GP has given my 75yo husband the jabs, but I at 63 and our kids in their 30s say no. Too many anomalies appearing now.

          70

    • #
      Bruce

      HCQ is essentially synthetic Quinine.

      It has been used to suppress malaria for DECADES, being cheaper and more consistently available than the “organic” stuff that is supposed to be found in a good G&T.

      A BIG factor in all if this caper is that whilst HCQ was in use, other “experimental” mRNA concoctions could not compete for the big bikkies.

      Furthermore HCQ is “off-patent” and cheap to make. So, Falsi and others at the core of this entire rock-show had it struck down.

      This being the same “Doctor” Falsi who was a key player in the SARS and AIDS fiascos.

      Read and capture quickly. The memory-hole is working overtime right now.

      Don’t forget your ZINC. Not just now, but if you live in Australia, many of our soils are severely zinc deficient because the place is very old and may also have started with “low” zinc. Zinc plays a role on several important body functions, including bone building and maintenance. Don’t forget Vitamin D as well.

      381

      • #
        MP

        And Quinine is an Australian native tree, the traditional occupiers used it as a medicine, for what I don’t know (hangover cure) but the link says the women of the traditional occupiers used it as birth control and fishing, cause they are so similar. Was used to treat fevers. Maybe not the best link.

        https://fairdinkumseeds.com/products-page/ethnobotanical-or-medicinal-plants/quinine-bush-bitter-bark-petalostigma-pubescens-seeds/

        40

        • #
          ian hilliar

          no, MP, quinine was discovered in South America, where Jesuit Priests noted the use of Chincona bark by the natives to treat their malaria. The Jesuits brought it back to Europe, where Malaria was still rife in lowland areas like Holland, and Westminster. Was it not Gladstone who reportedly died of Malaria rather than take that Popish Powder? I guess PDS pre-dates TDS

          10

      • #
        another ian

        But you can also over-do on zinc.

        And check anything new that you are prescribed.

        The pill I have been prescribed for onset macular degeneration contains as much zinc as the tablet I was taking prior.

        20

        • #
          shortie of greenbank

          would depend on the ‘variety’. Zinc found in animal foods seems fine, I’ve not heard of someone getting zinc poisoning from oysters for example.

          One thing I have heard on occasion is that hig zinc consumption may unbalance copper, one way was to eat more ruminant liver since that is much higher in copper than zinc but generally the body tries to balance these two out even through excretion. If there was a problem with the excretion of zinc, like say how high insulin interferes with the body’s ability to remove electrolytes from the blood as an example, perhaps it might become ‘toxic’ then?

          10

          • #
            greggg

            ‘several research studies have investigated the relationship between zinc intake and copper status. In those studies, the amount of zinc and the length of time taken were analyzed. A daily intake of 60 mg of zinc for 10 weeks (well above the UL) was associated with a decrease in copper status’
            ‘Additional studies indicate copper supplementation along with zinc helps balance absorption of both nutrients. Many alternative and integrative practitioners recommend a ratio of 15 mg of zinc to 1 mg of copper’

            https://www.thorne.com/take-5-daily/article/supplementing-with-zinc-and-copper-a-balancing-act

            Except a lot of people have low ceruloplasmin and supplemental copper makes them copper toxic.

            00

  • #
    David Maddison

    President Trump was right about just about everything, including the laboratory origins of the WuFlu and the efficacy of HCQ (both now proven) but information was suppressed by the Left. And millions died as a result.

    He will be found to be correct about the theft of the presidency of the United States as well.

    President Trump’s mistake was putting too much trust in some of his appointees and their agencies. The Deep State ran much deeper than he ever anticipated. E.g. some of many examples is that he should have sacked Bill Barr when he refused to act on the Biden laptop and also when he refused to enforce Section 230 of the CDA which allows social media to be immune from prosecution as they falsely claim to be common carriers and not publishers.

    570

    • #
      Ross

      All too correct DM, but Trump couldn’t do all those things on his own. He was fighting the media, Washington bubble, the US public service with entrenched Democrats sympathisers, elements of the Republican Party and probably a number of his advisors. Probably even Ivanka!!

      460

      • #
        theotherross

        Also I suspect that everything ramped up against him when he withdrew from the UN climate change ageement.

        260

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      David,

      I Think Mr. Trump let a lot of these things go
      so that the PEOPLE could SEE everything that was going on.
      The people had to be shown. There has definitely been
      lots to see, even from here in Australia.

      Mr. Trump will be back bigger and better than before.

      I just hope his reach is such that he can get rid
      of the GRUBS we have here in past and present politics.

      We have a HUGE billabong to clear of our now obvious
      GLOBALISTS.

      GOD, help Australia.

      150

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        President Trump has about 4 years to get his top team together to take over all the top ranking jobs in the bureaucracy, and to also put together 1st reserves.

        He’ll need to check them thoroughly to ensure they’re clean of corruption and are true Republicans who will support all aspects of the American Constitution and swear to pursue those who don’t.

        They also need to commit to cleaning out the upper levels of the bureaucracy of those who are political subversives allied to the Democrats and the greens. It’s a big job, but next time he’ll be prepared more fully for the enemies of democracy.

        80

    • #
      Tilba Tilba

      President Trump was right about just about everything, including the laboratory origins of the WuFlu and the efficacy of HCQ (both now proven) but information was suppressed by the Left. And millions died as a result. – David Maddison

      The efficacy of HCQ and the Wuhan Lab origin of the coronavirus are indicated at this stage, but not yet proven.

      There is a lot of information to suggest that:

      (1) there were a lot of unknowns early, because it was a novel coronavirus
      (2) there was dysfunction comms between CDC, the Task Force (Fauci-Birx) and the Trump Admin
      (3) Big Pharma “ownership” of the FDA and other regulators is probably of a high order
      (4) there was a lot of anecdotal (mis)-information swirling around, including the usual load of conspiracy and wild rumour

      However it seems to me that Trump was to a large extent his own worst enemy – during his presidency he had told many lies, used gross exaggeration, and basically pumped out all sorts of rumours and fables that suited his agenda, but could not – and were not – ever substantiated.

      While it’s true that much of the mainstream media were very sick and tired of all those dysfunctional “media briefings” I think basically many people and stakeholders had given up believing / accepting anything that Trump said or tweeted.

      He also raised the use of household bleach and UV light being used internally, and these were given the same shake-of-the-head treatment as HCQ, and much else.

      And not only was Trump’s credibility sinking to rock-bottom, the CDC and others also had major reputational crises – the greatest of which (in my view) was the equivocation and flip-flop over the efficacy of masks.

      Then – being a tight but highly charged election year – masks were politicised and weaponised throughout 2020. I think the US could have had a far better outcome if Trump had used a mask early, and endorsed masks as soon as it was known that aerosol transmission was the major driver, rather than surface contact.

      Basically I think they were all culpable, and it is a year of infamy really – for the American health industry.

      I still find it unbelievable that the US funded coronavirus research (possibly GOF research) in a foreign lab that they didn’t control, and despite the regulations preventing (or strictly controlling) any such research, because of the risk of a pandemic. Amazing stuff.

      00

  • #
    Hanrahan

    This is déjà vu all over again.

    90

    • #
      Lance

      Hanrahan: Right back at you 🙂

      “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”

      “The future ain’t what it used to be”

      “You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going, because you might not get there”

      ― Yogi Berra

      110

  • #
    James Hein

    The other key ingredient is Zinc. HCQ is an isophore that allows Zinc, known to suppress viral replication, move more easily into the cells.
    Based on this study: https://www.afinalwarning.com/525818.html it is not as effective as Ivermetcin but it is still a very good combination.

    The real story here is how the academics and government wonks are only listening to the WHO and large drug companies instead of those on the front lines.

    300

    • #

      Interestingly one ICU doc in India raved about both drugs but said if he had to pick he would choose HCQ, which surprised me.

      200

    • #

      Didn’t you mean ionophore ?

      30

    • #
      Phil O'Sophical

      Yes, James. The very excellent Dr Roger Seheult (pronounced (Swelt) explained – in Medcram Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34, way back in March 2020 FGS!! – in some detail how zinc works to stop the virus replicating inside a cell, but how it needs the HCQ (or another ionophore) to let it into the cell.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

      One of his later Updates on HCQ was taken off YouTube despite being entirely factual medical information on the chemistry, and non-political. It was reinstated sometime later after representations. But it was clear way back then that the last thing Big Pharma and their globalist friends wanted was a simple cheap cure or cures, for a variety of malevolent reasons.

      50

  • #
    John R Smith

    Those of us that became suspicious of the climate agenda thought we were being cynics.
    This past year has shown us we were actually naive.

    390

  • #
    David Maddison

    Are you aware that Australia’s federal Department of “Health” are still peddling the lie that HCQ is “dangerous”? I have written to them with peer reviewed references that when used appropriately it isn’t but they are committed to the lie.

    In the early stages of covid in Australia many people died unnecessarily, or at least would have had a chance, if the administration of HCQ according to the Zelenko Protocol hadn’t been made illegal and even a criminal offence in some places.

    That’s why I say we need a Nuremburg-style trials for the people who banned HCQ without any scientific basis and causing people to die as a result.

    650

  • #
    another ian

    Not HCQ but

    “CDC Releases Stunning Data Showing Young People At Risk of Heart Inflammation From COVID Vaccine
    June 10, 2021 | sundance | 147 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/06/10/cdc-releases-stunning-data-showing-young-people-at-risk-of-heart-inflammation-from-covid-vaccine/

    160

  • #
    Ross

    Not only was Trump right (but he was just informed by some very passionate doctors anyway)- Dr Zev Zelenko was also right. Too early to tell but as we progress from the NH summer in winter again during late 2021, it will be interesting to see if COVID resurges again with seasonality. If that’s the case and the breakthrough cases keep mounting, then I suspect there will be a big turnaround in thinking on all the possible 11 anti-virals. Including both HCQ and Ivermectin.

    240

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yes. And in that regard it’ll be interesting to see how Australia goes this winter as well. Especially Victoria.

      I suspect its already started to get a hold.

      20

  • #
    Ronin

    You know the old saying…. ‘Never let a crisis go to waste’…. the dr*g companies live by that one.

    150

  • #

    Jo
    My brother from the UK was just over and we had large argument on HCQ and Ivermectin. He is a genetics PhD and kept saying that the studies on HCQ and Ivermectin were only small.

    I made the same point you are alluding to, that due to the Leftist silencing and career destroying its getting impossible to actually do large scale work (which is costly!!) as no funding is provided. But the floodgates open, literally, for anyone and any company who uses the magic word “vaccine”.

    I have lost count of the videos I have seen at public hearings and on conference calls of doctors putting their careers on the line by asking why there was not a huge push to advise how to treat covid patients throughout this crisis. In my business if there is a large problem we all immediately get together and come up with ways to deal with it and hopefully eliminate it asap. And we pass on these details to other branches who make the same products. That is how any reputable, sensible company works. But Dr Young, Dr Sutton and their ilk around the world seem more keen on fining and banning, and NOT providing anything other than vaccine promotional material and administrative info.

    If this were my business those not actually solving the problem would have been relieved of their duties long ago. But the key here is politics. For the Left its only the politics that count. Incompetence is apparently ok as long as the politics are right, and the politically correct response was apparently to mask up, lockdown but do not treat…and wait for a vaccine. This response will eventually get fully exposed, and hopefully we learn that we need to share knowledge and actually do something to help those in need, rather than concentrate on politics.

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      Prophet, sorry to hear of your familial trials. Indeed, you are right, the question no one can answer is why such promising drugs are not being investigated. Why are the trials for IVM and HCQ being cut off before they reach significance in some cases, or set up not to find a useful outcome.

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        Phil O'Sophical

        Jo, you ask why. I thought it was because if there is a known and proven treatment, there is no emergency thus no emergency authorisation to skip trials and use an untested ‘vaccine’, thus no vast profits for big pharma and no reason for Schwaab’s Grrrreat Rrrreset or many other agendas.

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      Lucky

      only small studies

      There is a problem with this. It comes from legalistic thinking, that is, ‘is a statement true or false?’
      This is supposedly from what could be called the scientific method. It leads to why so many people claim that science is not the whole story, is not adequate for their situation.

      Rather, in human affairs decisions are to be made, data can be used to assist decisions. But in human affairs data is not adequate, often unreliable, not relevant or biased. Decisions, such to use or not use a specific medication await decision such as use it, not use it, wait for more data, or wait for something to happen.
      The decision process should use analysis of costs and benefits, with understanding of probabilities and consequences.

      A claim that a specific medication should not be used as it has not been proven to be safe is often based on over-education and always illogical/unscientific. It ignores the knowledge and experience that not acting has its own dangers.

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    another ian

    FWIW

    “It’s three+ hours long. Make the time. It doesn’t matter if you’re vaccine enthusiastic or vaccine hesitant, it’s important to understand the nature of the evidence, how difficult it has been to get public health authorities to acknowledge the risks and disclose data, and why reasonable people find the arguments and evidence concernin

    https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY

    Via http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/06/10/the-dog-barks/

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    exsteelworker

    As more evidence comes to light that these drugs where not used because of the lefties, MSM, hatred of Trump.Lawyers are going to be very busy.

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    TdeF

    I was staggered when the journalist Greg Sheridan on the front of the Australian blamed Donald Trump for the lack of recognition of the likelihood of a leak from the Wuhan Military Virus laboratory. His backhand argument is that because Donald Trump said it, he made the idea “politically toxic” and therefore the media and politicians immediately and wrongfully rejected it.

    And besides, it’s not about whether it leaked or not. That is irrelevant. It’s what the General in charge did next.

    It’s all unreal. Even when Trump is right, he is wrong and it’s his fault. Just like Hydroxychloroquin and shutting the borders and Iran and Israel and Russia and North Korea and Hunter Biden. Now we have Joe Biden in England as a guest of the British government prefacing his meeting with a formal diplomatic reprimand to Boris Johnston for BREXIT, something reserved for your enemies.

    There was nothing Trump did which was right. It was his abrasive behaviour and sexism and racism and antisemitism and greed. I cannot imagine a Trump library. The hating never stops. How dare he stop Hilary Clinton from becoming their President and one stolen election requires another.

    And January 6th 2021 was not a peaceful protest with completely unarmed civilians demanding their rights, it was the worst riot in American history and the violent racist red neck crowd murdered policemen. Apparently. And shooting an unarmed veteran woman dead was just reasonable policing. White lives don’t matter it seems.

    As history is being rewritten, and Joe Biden wreaks havoc among his allies and coddles America’s enemies, the intentional worldwide mass urgent distribution of the Wuhan viral bioweapon will be conveniently forgotten. How it escaped the laboratory is irrelevant because the entire problem was Donald Trump’s fault. And 750,000 Chinese made it to America alone with the virus before Trump closed the doors. The Chinese communist party had no choice.

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      Annie

      You weren’t the only one staggered by Greg Sheridan’s swipe at President Trump. We were taken aback and very annoyed by it.

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        Bruce

        Is Greg Sheridan the new John Pilger?

        Certainly in the running.

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      • #

        I for one have ceased subscribing to the Australian and Greg Sheridan is part of that. Sometimes he provided good journalism but of late its been narrative following rather than proper investigation. Any comments on their website actually questioning his tortured logic were rejected…

        Journalism rule #1 – its always Trumps fault (even when it isn’t)

        Journalism rule #2 – see rule 1

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      Ross

      Sheridan caught a dose of ATDS very early in the piece. Unfortunately, there is no cure or vaccine for that affliction.

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      BriantheEngineer

      Trump hatred has caused Greg to go insane.

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      David Maddison

      Sheridan used to be a conservative. Like many others, they “go bad”. What happens to them?

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        ando

        Told what to say by those pulling the strings at newscorp – Murdoch jnr? Especially noticeable after the fallout between Trump and fox news during the election. Bolt is another example who I dont bother with anymore.

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      Tilba Tilba

      I was staggered when the journalist Greg Sheridan on the front of the Australian blamed Donald Trump for the lack of recognition of the likelihood of a leak from the Wuhan Military Virus laboratory.

      His backhand argument is that because Donald Trump said it, he made the idea “politically toxic” and therefore the media and politicians immediately and wrongfully rejected it.

      I’m not a fan of The Australian, nor indeed Greg Sheridan, but on this point, I think he’s absolutely right, on both HCQ and the lab-leak. I argued it elsewhere in this thread.

      Note that Steve Bannon – his far-right “advisor” – said (and I paraphrase), “Your enemy isn’t the Democrats, it’s the media, so on every issue, just flood the zone with shit”, which he did. But Trump was such a consummate and life-long liar that he simply had zero credibility.

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      • #

        Do you score points somewhere for each time you label centrists who like the US Constitution as “far right” and for the number of times you describe Trump, who was right on WuFlu and HCQ, as “lies”?

        If only you had some evidence?

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Chatting with my friends in China, they are laughing at the who idea of ivermectin, the best they could say about it is that it is a placebo for the vaccine hesitant

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      Annie

      Well, I expect they’d rather we didn’t use Ivermectin; it might reduce the illness and panic levels too much, mightn’t it?!

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      • #

        Peter, funny how you always say something I could imagine the CCP saying?

        I mean, it’s uncanny …. 😉

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          TedM

          Maybe a bit scary.

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          Peter Fitzroy

          Attack the man, well done

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          • #
            MP

            Wellyou didn’t have an argument or are you claiming breach of copyright.

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            Klem

            Relax Pete, if you were a conservative who routinely trolled Leftist websites, they’d ban you imediately.

            We actually enjoy hearing what lunatic Leftists such as yourself have to say. Its entertaining.

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            Tilba Tilba

            Attack the man, well done

            Just ignore them Peter – they can’t conceive of people having friends in China – notice how they all immediately leapt to “CCP” and Chicomm attacks?

            We have good friends in China (middle-class, in Shanghai) – they are not brainwashed lackeys of the government by any stretch. I bet none of the puppies nipping at your heals here have any Chinese friends – and rely solely on The Epoch Times.

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            • #

              Yet, despite having “friends in China” neither of you have any evidence that HCQ or Ivermectin are harmful or don’t work or that SARS2 was natural.

              So quick to call ad hom, but it’s a cover to hide the lack of any scientifically valid argument from either of you.

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              Kalm Keith

              Wow, Tanilba is so inciteful today.

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          OriginalSteve

          Talking to people in the know in the US, it seems very clear the CCP has infiltrated and putrified all layers of society, by design.

          The CCP appears to be a clear and present danger to global peace, and ironically is involved in rampant imperialism of the same type ( but worse ) the Left condemns the West of.

          The Left and it’s spiritual father, the CCP are a corrupt and damaging influence upon all humanity.

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            Tilba Tilba

            Talking to people in the know in the US …

            LOL. This has more credibility than “Chatting with my friends in China …”?

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      David Maddison

      And your Chicomm friends in China are laughing at you, Peter.

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      Raving

      Better be careful Peter. Your conversations are probably being monitored

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      shortie of greenbank

      they think of themselves as your handlers….

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    Annie

    I have been taking Quercetin for a while now, adding it to VitC, VitD, Zn and sitting in the sun for a while (when there is some). We have some sheep and cattle so keep some Ivermectin-containing stuff here. Our daughter says she should be ok, with getting the odd splash of drench while dealing with lots of cattle!

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    David Maddison

    Conservatives and those on the rational side of science need to fight back against one of the standard Leftist ad hominem insults of being a “tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist” (when they’re not accusing you of being a “racist”, “nazi” or being “phobic” of one kind or another).

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    • #

      A good start would not to write and say things that perfectly fit those descriptors.

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        MP

        UFOligists where Tin foil hatters and conspiracy theorists up until February this year, now their being listened to, and the deniers are now the likes of Crian Box and Co.

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          “were” “they’re”.

          They still are tin foil hatters. You are overlooking what they actually claim which is completely and utterly nutty and insert something possibly credible as evidence, that is unrelated to their nuttiness.

          btw – where is the evidence?

          [mods – I acknowledge this is off topic and will curtail – MP keep reply brief if at all]

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        • #

          I have had a post disappeared… can’t repost as I get a duplicate post error

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            MP

            Happened to me on the weekend unthreaded, never to be seen again.
            Don’t worry I got this!

            I will abuse myself, hopefully your sarcasm will come through.

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            MP

            Well I just gave myself a good dressing down, I must say my feelings are hurt. I was disappointed in myself as I am not at your level in sarcasm.

            Why would you say such things, we’ve hung magnets together.

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            • #

              and it looks like my comment appeared so you get abused twice.

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                OriginalSteve

                Oh behave, Leaf…..

                Tut tut….

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              • #
              • #

                GA Spam bot had grabbed it. I went hunting and set it free. Please, if comments disappear without a trace, let us know. It’s probably in the spam and the mods and I will not go in there unless we know to look for something. Literally hundreds of comments a day are trapped on auto, and 99.99% are spam. But best to email us, rather than discuss in comments.

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              • #

                Makes sense that the other systems are recognising the duplication too in that case.

                Also worth everyone recognising, if they don’t already, that this is a common problem (even in my moderating days years ago) anywhere there is an open invitation to contribute. Anti spam bot measures aren’t perfect but they are much better than the alternative.

                Note to self- don’t start a post with too many quote marks.

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        OrignalSteve

        Would you like to elaborate……specifics would be good.

        Take your time….

        I remember a famous movie, “Dirty Harry” I think it was…plenty of good one liners.

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      TdeF

      I have to remind the socialists that the NAZIs were National Socialists, on the extreme left. Lenin and Stalin were on the extreme left. Mao Tse Tung on the extreme left. And all were extreme racists, anti semites and committed unbelievable mass murder, wars of extermination. In the name of equality. AntiFA are the fascists. As was written on the Berlin wall, socialist is what totalitarians call themselves. And the problem with inner city Democrat run America is that Black Lives don’t Matter at all.

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        Terry

        ‘socialist is what totalitarians call themselves’

        In Australia, the totalitarians prefer “progressive”.

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          MP

          In Australia, the totalitarians prefer “progressive”

          In Australia, the totalitarians prefer “Government”

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        David Maddison

        And the Leftists are today revealing themselves yet again as the antisemites they always were. Even though they don’t call themselves the National Socialists or International Socialists any more, they are still out there and still doing all the evil they have always done.

        The antisemitism of the Left is discussed in:

        https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2021/05/the-essential-anti-semitism-of-the-socialist/

        In matters pertaining to all aspects of society, socialists like to present themselves as righteous priests of the moral high ground. The record of socialism in practice, however, has shown it has rarely matched the rhetoric of its followers.

        Despite claims to promote peace, equality and liberty, socialists have been in the vanguard of violent demonstrations, demonising anyone who disagrees with them and, wherever possible, suppressing human rights. Far from being the advocates of social reform and advanced thinking, socialist governments invariably embrace a conservative statism in which individuals have neither freedom nor peace.

        The equality “enjoyed” by them results from having had their moral and material standards reduced to that of the lowest common social denominator. Socialists invariably confuse equality with sameness.

        They also believe the socialist movement sprang from the Enlightenment. This is true, but not in the way they like to imagine. Socialism was a reaction to the Enlightenment, a counter-movement, based on an ideology that scorns rational thinking.

        See link for rest.

        Also see Andrew Bolt.

        https://www.news.com.au/national/antisemitism-coming-from-the-left-is-growing-fast-bolt/video/65b745a27b4d415eae49da4310d6a343

        There are many other sources discussing it as well.

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      Melissa

      DM,
      You get called that when when you make crazy claims without evidence, get called out for forwarding non-evidence and outright BS and continue with the crazy claims.

      [Go Melissa, bowl us over with your reasoning. – J]

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    David Maddison

    Here is a page with various links related to the Zelenko Protocol.

    https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/

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    OrignalSteve

    Jo, I think you will fin d this a useful read.

    Journal specifically covering HCQ accumulation in both humans and mice……

    https://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/jpet/365/3/447.full.pdf

    “Hydroxychloroquine: A Physiologically-Based Pharmacokinetic Model in the Context of Cancer-Related Autophagy Modulations

    “Keagan P. Collins, Kristen M. Jackson, and Daniel L. Gustafson

    “School of Biomedical Engineering (K.P.C., K.M.J., D.L.G.) and Department of Clinical Sciences (D.L.G.), Colorado State

    “University, Fort Collins, Colorado; and University of Colorado Cancer Center, Aurora, Colorado (D.L.G.)

    “Received October 10, 2017; accepted February 6, 2018

    “Although actual concentrations associated with retinopathy are unknown, patients classified as high risk are categorized
    as those receiving .6.5 mg/kg per day for .5 years (Pandya et al., 2015). The model can be used to simulate and avoid HCQ
    retinal accumulation thresholds observed within these highrisk dosing levels. Heart was included due to rare incidence of
    irreversible cardiomyopathy that could possibly be exacerbated during long-term dosing of combination therapies that
    also exhibit some level of cardiovascular toxicity (Al-Bari, 2015). Treatments associated with cardiomyopathy are extremely rare, with only 42 known cases as of 2014 and reported mean cumulative doses of 1843 g (Yogasundaram et al., 2014).
    Remaining tissues were grouped into the rapidly perfused compartment, consisting of remaining viscera, and the slowly
    perfused compartment that consists of bone, muscle, and adipose

    “The model was validated in humans by accurately simulating blood exposure and urinary clearance of HCQ over
    a 72-hour period following oral and i.v. administration of two different doses. Additionally, it captured the distribution of
    Css at seven different dosing levels in a larger population of patients. Overall, it is able to simulate both early time points
    and steady-state values of patients at all concentrations used in a cancer clinical trial setting. This validation, in conjunction
    with the physiologic nature of the model, makes it a powerful tool in predicting patient exposure in the 501 clinical trials
    currently administering HCQ.

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    Flok

    Aim of natural medicines is to prevent and cure some diseases and optimise the human operating system.

    Aim of mainstream medicine is to manage the symptoms and cure some diseases.

    In general conclusion the medical system isn’t as sophisticated as it proclaims to be as we still do not know much about anything. It is a money making machine both for doctors and the pharmaceutical industry.

    Advancements have been made in surgical procedures and diagnosis. Pass this point medical sector still fails to prevent an outbreak of golden staph bacteria right within their own domain.

    All new breakthroughs are 5 years away from having the treatments available which makes a predictable punchline of all medical breaking news. That is nothing more but a call for more and more funding to go towards research. Is there falsehood and deception here?

    Adverse reactions and misdiagnosis have costed many lives to date. There needs to be a better system in place to introduce accountability to their actions and their claims. Complacency is the disease of the medical system because it is a business and accountability is the cure. 90% of the doctors are nothing but show ponies with trigger happy licenced prescription pads.

    As for WHO it needs dismantling and collaborative structure put in place between all countries instead.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    Hopefully John Skerritt and Jenny Francis at our Therapeutic Goods Authority are reading this article and are planning to lift the embargo on Hydroxychloroquine so that Aussies have fair access to other effective prophylaxis and treatment for COVID-19n+1.

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  • #

    No mention in any of the HCQ studies of the role of zinc? Despite that it’s known that the mode of action of HCQ against COVID, is that HCQ transports zinc ions into cells, and it’s the zinc that jams up viral replication. And many people are zinc deficient, hence the Zelenco protocol: HCQ, Az, AND ZINC supplements. In zinc deficient patients HCQ is unlikely to be effective against COVID.

    So many people still don’t seem to understand why the establishment was and still is so hostile to HCQ as a treatment for COVID. Or they just simplistically blame it on ‘profit motive.’

    No, the crucial reason is that NONE of the COVID ‘vaccines’ have safety trials and approval. They are all being given only under ’emergency use authorization.’ And this can only be done legally if there is NO KNOWN alternative treatment.

    Also the COVID vaccines could never pass safety trials, since they use very unsafe technology (especially the mRNA ones) and are definitely killing a lot of people.

    The powers that be _really_ wanted the vaccines to be as widely used as possible. Why they did and still do, is a whole ‘nother issue, and it isn’t about money. But to achieve their aims, they HAD to suppress knowledge and use of HCQ (and the other effective antivirals that turned up, like Ivermectin.)

    While big pharma, Gates, Fauci et al are still pushing the vaccines, they will keep trying to suppress HCQ. Right up until they are arrested and charged with genocide.

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    I forgot to point out a crucial detail. The anti-HCQ campaign began immediately upon public mention of HCQ as a treatment. This was long before the development of the vaccines… And yet the motivation was clear – don’t allow any alternative treatment to exist, as that would block emergency use authorization for the eventually developed vaccines.

    You don’t suppose… they had the mRNA ‘vaccines’ developed all along? Created in parallel with COVID in the Wuhan lab. Some (me included) feel that the virus was developed specifically to be released as a scare tactic to enable rollout of mandatory ‘vaccination.’ Something that would give certain people much better control over who lived and who died. (At least in their Elitist global cull/Great Reset dreams.)

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    • #

      So why did they give up on the ebola project Guy?

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      Tel

      The mRNA prototype was already available in Feb 2020.

      The COVID-19 pandemic has thus far caused infection of more than 100 million people and over 2 million deaths worldwide. These numbers also reflect an astonishing increase compared to more than 80,000 infections and over 3,000 deaths by March 2020 1 when the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a world pandemic. Moreover, the pandemic brought nearly the entire world to stop due to the consequent global crisis in health, economy, and psychology. COVID-19 is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus -2 (SARS-CoV-2), a name adapted from SARS-CoV that caused the infection of SARS in 2003 2. Since none of the explored therapies can directly kill the virus, vaccines have become the last hope to stop the pandemic. However, vaccine development is generally a time-consuming process, taking years to complete. As a great surprise, Moderna Biotechnology, Inc. delivered a vaccine named mRNA-1273 in only 42 days from the date when the spike protein-coding sequence of SARS-CoV-2 was published on January 10, 2020. Together, it took less than one year to complete the design, manufacture, efficacy and safety tests, and evaluation and approval for use.

      The main delays were testing and figuring out how to mass produce these new therapies. We can argue about the exact definition of “vaccine” … take note that the CDC decided to change their definition in order to encompass the new design. Whether you should re-define an old and established word to mean something different is arguable … nothing stopping people coming up with a new word for the new thing.

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        Tel

        Reference for original CDC definition of what a vaccine is.

        https://web.archive.org/web/20120307022707/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

        Definition of Terms
        Let’s start by defining basic terms:

        Immunization: The process by which a person or animal becomes protected against a disease. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

        Vaccination: Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to prevent the disease.

        Vaccine: A product that produces immunity therefore protecting the body from the disease. Vaccines are administered through needle injections, by mouth and by aerosol.

        Later this was changed, to ensure mRNA would be included.

        Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

        Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

        Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

        They also changed the definition of “Immunization” to exclude natural immunity in people recovered from the disease.

        Definitions, by definition, mean what you want them to mean … question of who is to be master, that is all.

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    David Maddison

    What do you suppose the consequences will be when/if the Sheeple come to realise that most people who succumbed to C19 died unnecessarily when an early stage treatment (HCQ) given according to appropriate protocols was available all along?

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    • #
      Terry

      ‘when/if the Sheeple come to realise…’

      Precisely the same thing as when they realise they’ve by duped by the global warming scam. Nothing!

      We have reached a critical mass of very comfortable people, actively pursuing a life of superstitious ignorance.

      The lies they now hold to be true are almost impossible to undo, even when the scammers themselves are emboldened to admit that they have alterior motives.

      It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

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        David Maddison

        It’s a tragic situation, Terry.

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          Terry

          Indeed it is David.
          We can’t be far from human sacrifices to make the crops grow (if we’re not there already).
          I want to say metaphorically, but recent history warns it will probably be quite literally.
          And our very well-educated and informed populace will think nothing of it. Indeed, they will be more than happy to not have to think at all.

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    David Maddison

    I think the anti-HCQ campaign started when President Trump mentioned it as a possible treatment option after he received a letter from Dr Zelenko concerning his success with using it for early stage treatment.

    The Left couldn’t allow the President to be seen to be associated with a possible effective treatment so they waged a war against HCQ and thus allowed millions to die instead. Dead people are just statistics to the Left. Just asked the National Socialists and International Socialists.

    Also, rendering covid-infected people untreatable by prohibiting simple, safe and effective treatments that were immediately available would not give an excuse to implement totalitarian laws (never likely to be removed) to lock people down, remove freedoms and destroy economies. All things loved by the Left.

    In terms of destruction leading up to an “excuse” for the Great Reset, covid was and is a much more powerful weapon than the anthropogenic global warming fraud was ever going to be.

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      Analitik

      Clive didn’t help here – he has zero credibility so he helped sink it as a treatment option

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      Tilba Tilba

      The Left couldn’t allow the President to be seen to be associated with a possible effective treatment so they waged a war against HCQ and thus allowed millions to die instead.

      It wasn’t “the Left” waging a war – certainly not in isolation. Neither the CDC nor the Covid-19 Task Force (Pence-Fauci-Birx) endorsed HCQ as a treatment either, and the media took their cues from that, quite reasonably.

      And wasn’t the case that Donald Trump was touting the use of HCQ prior to their being evidence that it was effective?

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    dp

    I’ve enjoyed the science in this blog for many years. Then came the coronavirus and whack science erupted. Too many studies have shown HCQ to have little efficacy in treating Covin-19. I’m completely depressed over the whack response by my fellow conservatives and republicans regarding Covid-19. Especially Trump whom I supported in every other way. Somehow our constitution became the most powerful instrument in the right-wing response to Covid-19, science, and it is simple science, was tossed out, Fauci has been demonized, and pandemic fundamentals have been ignored. Every time I read another pro HCQ article I feel my IQ draining away. Hopefully this blog will return to science – I don’t know, but I’ll check in from time to time. It’s coming out of my science bookmarks, though.

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      Bruce

      Troll.

      Falsi has been involved in SARS, AIDS and now this caper. have not yet dug back to the pre-internet days of the “Herpes crisis”, yet

      Follow the spike.

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      farmerbraun

      ” I feel my IQ draining away.”
      Priceless! Thanks for the laugh.

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      Raving

      Here in Canada our chief medical officer of health stood adamant that masks were worse than useless as they provided a false sense of protections. Naturally there were all sorts of clinical studies that confirmed this.

      Over time of months and hears the MOH guidance changed to ‘masks are useful but to protect others and not to protect the wearer to masks which have 3 layers protect the wearer to N95 masks protect the wearer. There were studies backing this up at every revision. Its progress. The science evolves.

      Given that it is so difficult to get a meaniful clinical trial of mask wearing, why would you suppose that HCQ could deftly be shown to be effective/ineffective

      There is a war on disease going on with the ICUSs overflowing and medical workers at their wits end working frantically to save lives. Are they goingto stop in their tracks and evaluate a single drug in a controlled erifyable manner? Too much going on and people are too desperate it isnt going to happen.

      Easy to sit back from afar and fantasize about doing objective drug trial. Very different story in theheat of the battle, even if working in the ICU or with dying patients is your normal

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        OriginalSteve

        Even in the heat of battle you take stock of whats going on, and this “battle” has been since Dec 2019.

        Funny how they have the time to create and rush out dangerous vaccines, but dont have time to evaluate life saving HCQ….

        I dont buy it..its pure BS.

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          Raving

          Very funny and also lousy research. /hyperbole intended – It’s real

          There are many drugs devices and methods that sit in unproven limbo. Even proven things are still waiting to come to market.

          Having Trump recommend something, politicizes it. That results in both push and push back

          Have you seen any definitive research that vitamin D helps cure covid19? I mean that by saying it remains an open issue. I’ve seen no definitive trial disproving its effectiveness either.

          Vaccines gain quick approval because they are clinical trialed in a clean unfettered environment … vaccine verus vaccineless. No other drugs or treatments to cloud the issue. Lack of treatment competition in the vaccinating

          Yet dig deeper into vaccine trials, looking at the variablity and range of multiitude ofoutcomes. it gets messy! IHow effecitve against this or that variant? Waiting time beyween doses? To give to this age or withhold from that age. Efficacy from getting systoms, efficacy in onward transmission, efficacy in dying from covid19.

          The so called ‘definitive’ vaccine trials are still hesitent in certain ways, notwithstanding massive numbers of people who have already been vaccinated

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      Chris

      You are right simple science was tossed out. We have known since the Industrial revolution that fresh air and sunshine are essential for people with lung infections. And yet Fauci and the medical bureaucrats said mask up and stay indoors- how has that helped? If you were locked in a cabin for 2 weeks on a cruise liner and contracted corona virus, how did that happen? Food , water, contact with porter or air-conditioning.? So we ignored these experiences and locked people in hermetically sealed hotels without fresh air, without sunshine and lousy air-conditioning without having a trustworthy test to rely on.

      Kary Mullin, who invented the PCR test said 30 amplifications for people who have symptoms- not 40 or 45 and no symptoms. So how many people have been victims of false positives ?

      When did medicine ignore patients who were unwell and say go home lock yourself in and wait for a vaccine ? if you get really sick go to the hospital ? Where has the primary care been? It has been proven that HCQ, Ivermectin and other drugs are very successful in the early stages of the infection. And yet they have been banned.
      Follow the money DP and you will see who is selling junk science.

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    • #
      Terry

      ‘I feel my IQ draining away’

      I applaud the generosity of those with so little choosing to give so much.

      On a happier note, everyone else just got smarter (averages and bell curves ‘n’ all). How good is that!

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    • #
      Raving

      Who are you going to believe… Trump who jokingly suggests injecting people with bleach? Boris Johnson who seriously considers injecting himself with live virus on national TV to show that covid19 is harmless and “herd immunity” is the science boards science proven strategy? How about the Swedish government’s assertion that Swedes have a naturally superior sense of social responsibility and this is all that is required to prevent overloading the Swedish health care system?

      How about the Canadian government thst first recommends AZ for those below the age of 65 and then switches to reccomending AZ to only those above age 50 to subsequently recommending that AZ not be used at all. Does that heighten your IQ?

      Maybe you support Fauci who says no way that covid19 is man made in Wuhan or the CDC who now say it was a mistake to dismiss the possibility of being man made or Biden who now calls for a formal investigation of the bioenginnering of the covid19 virus?…. or how about the 2 Chinese viral specialists who were fired for sending pathogen samples back to China? That must be a conspiracy theory for you too.

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/winnipeg-china-links-otoole-motion-1.6048492

      So what do you believe about covid19 and it’s variants? Or has your IQ been blown to bits in the churn of simple science

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Funny how none of the vaccines actually proven to protect people, but there is this clearly insane push to push them upon people for zero medical positive benefit.

        If people years from now look back on this, they will ask how people let themselves go along with such a mad idea as using vaccines that don’t protect people, but were injected anyway….

        Reminds me of the fake “precautionary principle” used by the bogus climate change nonsense to destroy stuff.

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        • #
          Yonason

          @O.S.

          You are headed in the right direction, but make some mistakes due to lack of information, courtesy of the info-gatekeepers.

          The COVID vaccines aren’t without benefit,…BUT, it’s only partial, because they don’t stop the virus cold. They aren’t a dead end for the virus, but a bottleneck, or detour. They still replicate, and spread, and that’s the problem. Because they can continue to replicate and spread, they will continue to mutate, making some able to re-infect those vaccinated, but not many of those who were infected and now have natural immunity. So, paradoxically, the more healthy young people who get those vaccines, the less likely we will be able to control the disease.

          BUT vulnerable people probably should get the vaccine, because it does provide them some immunity, unless we select for a virus that can get around it, by vaccinating everyone.

          Pls see my post #41 for links that go into that in depth.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        What President Trump said is not what you purport he said.

        Why is that?

        Here’s the fact check for you. I suggest you read it.

        https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

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        • #
          Raving

          I said Trump “jokingly suggested”. It was clear from the interview that he was playing with ideas and possiblities.Clearly there was no intention that it should be taken seriously in any direct sense.

          Although Johnson’s claim to be injected with the virus was close to hearsay, it is similar to other stunts that Johnson has genuinely pulled. There was a quality of utterseriousness to the allegation

          Merely mentioning something is sufficient to taint a topic and throw itinto vigorous political play, notwithstanding fact checking and allegations

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    • #
      MP

      Hmmm interesting, have the other vegetables in the patch noticed the decline?

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    • #
      Raving

      Fauci has been demonized, and pandemic fundamentals have been ignored

      Yes, especially when this sort of stuff goes on. If the Chinese are stealing Ebola samples, why would they shy from experimenting with gain function to create covid19?

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-lab-security-experts-1.6059097

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  • #
    Simon

    Interim results from the Pfizer vaccine have been much better than expected.
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pfizer-vaccine-even-better-than-we-hoped-for
    Get vaccinated people, it is in societies’ best interest.

    011

    • #
      John R Smith

      From my tiny world vista, “societies’ best interest(s)” are being dictated by a small vested super wealthy elite.
      With new found historically unprecedented powers (and wealth).
      Funny how Fauci actually said that to question him is to question ‘Science’.
      I think I have a lump on my head.
      New Church.
      New Pope.
      I think we might have to wait a few years to find out what “societies’ best interest” turns out to be.
      I truly hope the faithful, such as yourself, live to have that faith made worthy.

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    • #
      John R Smith

      I would also note that interim result that “have been much better than expected” is more evidence of the infallibility of our new great Lord, ‘Science’.
      Hallowed be it’s (zher) Name.
      Does Science have pronouns?
      I shall pray for revelation.

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    • #
      John R Smith

      Wait …
      since Fauci is Science, the pronoun would be ‘him, his’.
      I think he identifies as Cis.
      See, prayer worked and the answer was revealed.
      But wait, isn’t ‘Science’ the greatest form of Western cultural supremacy.
      It’s so confusing for small minds like mine.
      I shall pray.

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      • #
        Annie

        “have been much better than expected”. Damned with faint praise?
        “societies’ best interest”. But blow the individual’s best interest. We are not just cogs in a wheel.

        50

        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          “have been much better than expected”. Damned with faint praise?

          If you initially expect 80%+ efficacy, and your research shows 90%+, then that is better than expected, and not faint praise.

          I don’t like the term “society’s best interests” too much myself, but “society” in this context seems obviously to mean the entire population, and allowing a return to near-normal operation – not the specific interests of a ruling class – whose interests might conflict with those of the population in general.

          It seems to me that it is a good-news story, if the research is showing such results.

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  • #
    Raving

    Was once enrolled in a trial study involving ‘fish oil’. The hospital pharmacy gave me a large jar containing hundreds of gel capsules and I was instructed to consume a dozen a day or so. A few months later the physician asked me if it helped? I replied “No, not really”. That was the end of it

    My point being that trial studies aren’t easy to do even at the best of times. During a pandemic, people are rushing around and stressed out trying save people’s lives. Slowing down and doing a methodical trial study isn’t high on their priority list.

    So doing a trial study involving two drugs simultaneously at higher than normal dosages, whilst not being sponsored by big pharma in the panic of a pandemic where everyonecis pushed beyond their limits just to keep going … isn’t going to happen much, nor rigorously.

    Studies dont get done because of the ‘fog of war’

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  • #

    […] Hydroxychloroquine, a year later, 3 times higher survival rate. Trump was right — JoNova […]

    00

  • #
    carrstone

    This is the exemplary downside of the first amendment, the right to lie by omission.

    10

  • #
    Brett

    Forget about the US for a minute, what are these clowns in Australia doing. They should have been looking at this right from the start , seems to me that there’s corruption all around the world

    60

  • #

    Yes, Trump was right in concern of HCQ, but not in Remdesivir, named in the same sentence.

    20

  • #
    Kevin kilty

    I am a physical scientists/engineer, so I am not deeply steeped in medicine or biology. Yet, I have aided in the statistical analysis of therapudic trials, and I know how difficult it is to organize a credible trial of a treatment or therapy in the best of times. Randomized clinical trials are the supposed “gold standard”, but because of the inherent variance of people’s constitutions and their tendency toward bias in anything that is self-reported or has to be fetched from memory it is stunningly difficult to organize a fair test. Being in the midst of a pandemic, with agendas, bias, panic, and fears of liability all around, I don’t think it is too difficult to understand why there is such difference of opinion, even informed opinion. And why there are disparate results.

    In fact I think randomized clinical trials involving a placebo are impossible at present, and retrospective studies have got to be just about worthless in this situation. In the Pfizer/Moderna trials in the US the volunteer participants did not constitute anything like a representative population (in retrospect they were too healthy), and then many of them ruined the blindedness of the study by doing things like having themselves tested for antibodies. Certainly hatred of Trump played some role in the media and political circles, but the task was pretty daunting in the first place. I hope we will we learn something useful from this episode, but right now I am not certain we even understand how to treat the very ill. One would think that would have been job one, when one considers that coronavirus vaccines had no prior track record of success at all.

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  • #
    Yonason

    Important Information
    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e89cbef5-70d5-4555-89a9-32f2402dd1aa/SARS2parentsReview_CoueyJJ.pdf

    Bottom line, vaccinating everyone could be one of the worst things we could do.

    His most recent video…
    https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1052168985

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  • #
    Zigmaster

    All this does is confirm that everything bad about this virus is Trumps fault. If he wasn’t hated by so many of the public servants in authority both in the US and globally maybe proper scientific research could’ve been conducted and maybe a management of the disease could’ve been put in place to control COVID whilst vaccines were developed. In fact if Hydroxychloroquin and ivermectin were used in the first instance then maybe it would’ve died a natural death and mass vaccination would’ve been unnecessary. But what’s does it matter if a few million people died as long as that horrible orange haired man was removed from the White House. People are really sick! and it ain’t from the COVID.

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  • #
  • #

    The intended COV-19 crisis is a bluprint of what we have to await in caus climate change fight, net zero, GND etc

    00

  • #
    Lamb Chop

    Medication they’re rejecting,
    Early treatment they’re preventing, the Med Establishment,
    The NIH, the CDC the WHO- the hell with you,
    With your sitting on the fence,
    The politest way the put it is ‘wilful ignorance’,
    Despite over 50 studies and mountains of evidence.

    Are we correct in our assumption,
    They supported “gain of function”,
    And not only in theory, also financially,
    And was not stated intent,
    A global crisis to prevent?

    And now the world does find itself,
    In the middle of the fight,
    Like a sneezing bat-soup connoisseur,
    They’ve lost their appetite!”

    It would seem they’re in no hurry,
    For a sanctioned trial or study,
    In treatment or prevention,
    And refuse to even mention,
    All the data pouring in.

    For Big Pharma there is much to lose,
    And so they label ‘controversial’,
    Though their reasons are commercial,
    The safe effective treatments,
    Many Nations already use.

    And the tiresome mainstream networks,
    Their allegiance plain to see,
    At least for anybody watching it,
    And thinking critically,
    If you Hunger for the science
    And brilliant repartee,
    Search online for “Dark Horse Podcasts”
    Or Simply FL C C C.

    In any battle, large or small,
    We know eventually,
    The light of truth will light the way
    And it will be plain to see,
    The loudest voice with all to lose,
    It shouts “conspiracy!”

    But what’s to gain for IVM,
    When compared to a vaccine,
    Though let’s call it what it really is,
    A new gene therapy.

    Ask yourself Cui bono,
    Who benefits the most,
    Those who place supportive care,
    Over Hippocratic Oath?

    Which party has the most to lose,
    And who’s trying to make a buck,
    Who really cares for patients,
    And who doesn’t give a Fauci.

    In this debate it’s plain to see,
    Who’s on the side of good,
    Who’s the Sheriff of Nottingham,
    And who is Robin Hood.

    So if you hear it doesn’t work,
    By print or TV station,
    Know that you are being fed,
    “covid misinformation”

    So congratulations Doctors,
    Take a bow and tip your hat,
    You’ve used your nous, your skill and brains,
    And cracked this covid crap.

    A grateful global population,
    United as one nation
    Applaud your mighty efforts,
    To defeat this enemy,
    We know now that the battle,
    Was fought as much politically.

    But it’s over, done and dusted,
    The dam is busted through,
    You’ve flipped the script on covid,
    And the obstructionists of the WHO.

    For now its they who must defend,
    And sell the narrative,
    That EUA’s are needed for experimental jabs,
    And the risks are worth YOU dying for,
    As there’s no alternative.

    But for now we are applauding,
    And looking on in awe,
    And statues they’ll be erecting,
    For the Scientists, the Doctors
    And that Nobel Prize selection,
    Now an anti-viral miracle,
    Its name is IVERMECTIN!

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  • #
    DD

    Wouldn’t you love to see the sales figures for HCQ and Ivermectin. You can bet your bottom dollar that ‘those who are able to’ have been buying it up for themselves and their pals.

    10