JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Israel data: Vaccines only 16% effective after 6 months but still prevent 86% hospitalization

Good and bad news about long term vaccine effectiveness is coming out of Israel. Protection from catching Covid plummets after a few months. Only 1 in 6 people who were vaccinated against Covid in January still have enough protection left to stop themselves catching and spreading Covid. The good news is that five out of six still have good protection against hospitalization and severe disease.

Thanks to David Archibald who says “The coronavirus vaccines are an immunological Potemkin village”

The Israeli data above is what sent the markets sliding on Monday. Ouch!

Vaccine efficacy Isreal, Graph, Coronavirus

Vaccine efficacy in Israel from people vaccinated in January, Febuary, March and April this year.

Forget herd immunity and Vax-passports

The new results mean taking a vaccine is more a personal decision about risk benefits, less  “one for the team”, though it may reduce the risk of transmission. Toss out the idea that a vaccination passport offers meaningful protection and get used to the idea that people can and will catch Covid from the double vacced. There is little medical justification for giving extra rights or free access to vaccinated people.

Israel used the Pfizer vax mostly.

Efficacy against infection, asymptomatic and symptomatic, falls away rapidly. After six months (blue):

        • catching covid: 16% effective
        • mild symptoms: 16%
        • hospital: 82%
        • severe cases of covid: 86%.

The big problem is that leaky vaccines means nastier mutations are more likely

With leaky vaccines, the arms race is live and running. The mutation machine that is every infected body will be churning out and testing variations of Covid. Sooner or later there will be variants that escape this round of vaccines. That means the virus can not only get around the hosts immune system — making them sick, but it will probably be able to get around most other vaccinated people too.

Remember Marek’s disease in domestic chickens? After 50 years of vaccinations the 1%-killer of chickens became a tumorigenic 100% killer and wipes out unvaccinated chickens in a mere 10 days. This process is called “immune escape”. Medico’s will talk about it, but rarely spell out how bad it can be. Watch for those words. They are trying to warn us (albeit quietly and in a slightly cowardly way). This took 50 years in chickens and a lot of rounds of vaccines, but we don’t want the 2022 covid to be a bit nastier than the 2021 covid.

History books will show that it was beyond criminal not to hit the virus with antivirals. We stopped AIDS with a triple antiviral cocktail, not a vaccine. Using more than one drug at a time stops the virus mutating easily to gain resistance.

This was so predictable

Human immune systems are intricate, with feedback loops, and are designed to ignore minor threats. The challenge with vaccines is always to fool our immune system into getting excited about something that, in theory, doesn’t pose any threat at all. Often vaccines only induce short term protection compared to a natural infection. While the real influenza disease gives lifelong protection — and antibodies are still detectable over 50 years later — the influenza vaccines don’t provide long protection at all, and need regular boosters. And natural coronaviruses are not like influenza, they often don’t provoke long term protection. So it is (doh) not surprising that Coronavirus vaccines only offer short term protection against catching and spreading Covid. No wonder the industry started talking of the third booster shot months ago.

Vaccines are not the way of out the current mess in Sydney. Vaccination won’t give protection for weeks, and the vaccination clinics pose a spreading risk. How serious is Scott Morrison and Gladys? The main reason to pump vaccinations now is a/ to capitalize on fear and motivation, and b/ to reduce the spread and danger weeks from now but slightly increase it at the moment?

Viruses are dead chemicals with a two week “lifespan” at room temperature

It’s an engineering problem. To get rid of it, stop feeding the virus new bodies. Close borders properly. Use every filter and barrier, get better airflow, use UV-C light, heaters, faster airflow, outdoor events, measure and correct Vit D and Zinc deficiency, use antivirals like Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, bromhexine, plus quercetin, and every other tool we can find. We are not defenceless. It’s a dumb virus.

All business losses must be compensated by the masses who benefit. It’s only fair. The worst lockdowns are the half baked ones that drag on for weeks. Better and fairer to do it fast and properly so it can end soon.

All failures start at the border — so fix that first.

PS: hat tip to David Archibald, who is the author of The Anticancer Garden in Australia

9 out of 10 based on 64 ratings

235 comments to Israel data: Vaccines only 16% effective after 6 months but still prevent 86% hospitalization

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    With comments like;

    “Human immune systems are intricate, with feedback loops, and are designed to ignore minor threats.” and the bit about Mareks disease I’m looking forward to reading this slowly and giving it some attention.

    The Marek material seems to suggest that we need vaccines but we shouldn’t overdo it.
    Maybe the body’s immune system will get lazy and stop working if vaccines cut out the challenges normally experienced as part of life.

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    • #

      Mareks disease means we shouldnt use leaky vaccines as our one and only primary defence. We should use use antivirals and develop vaccines that don’t leak. If we use leaky vaccines we should combine them with antivirals.

      But here’s the thing, if we use antivirals to treat covid then there is no emergency which means experimental vaccines lose their approval because there is an alternative.

      It’s too early in this pandemic to push vaccines when new mutations are arriving rapidly. The disease will probably settle into something less deadly through natural mutation in something like 3 – 5 years. (As Spanish Flu did). BUT if we rely solely on leaky vaccines we are creating a selective pressure for variations that specifically neutralize our vaccines.

      Regarding the need for ongoing infections, we have plenty of colds and bacteria. Should we have held back pennecillin for fear our immune systems wouldn’t be challenged? Obviously not — though we were too slow to realize that we need probiotics and good bacteria, but the net benefits were immense.

      This is the era of antivirals, but profits are stopping the transformation.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        While I didn’t mention Penicillin I do agree that it was one of the great steps forward in biology.

        In recent years however I understand that the medical community has been concerned about the overuse of antibiotics and the consequent reduction in effectiveness.

        The point about vaccine leakiness is interesting in that if we aren’t sure that the vaccine can do away with the virus then maybe we should delay vaccination.

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      • #
        Peter C

        This is the era of antivirals, but profits are stopping the transformation.

        Bid Pharma obviously has an interest in manufacturing expansive vaccines. Yet it seems to me that the road blocks to widespread use of antivirals are being put up by health officials and academics.
        I don’t really understand why.

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        • #
          Peter C

          expensive vaccines.

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        • #
          Roger Knights

          “Learned helplessness” aka “trained incapacity” is one reason. Public Health Agencies have been trained to demand big double-blinded RCTs with placebo and a 95% proof of efficacy before authorizing something new. By blindly applying their book-learning they have been helpless to deal with a deadly pandemic and a safe drug, that doesn’t need a big trial.

          Another reason is that Public Health Agencies that have funded research want their money back, which they get from a royalty on vaccine sales. So they have an interest in keeping those sales flowing.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Video interview ( 1 hour ) interviewing Dr. Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology.

        Bottom line, like Bosshe said, the vaccines appear to transfer spike protein all over the body, with large amounts into ovaries. Early comments from Americas Front Line Doctors also expressed alarm at potential sterility potential for women.

        Quite good, lots of medical and cross references of data.

        https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/censored-dark-horse-podcast-bret-weinstein-robert-malone-inventor-mrna-vaccine-technology/

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  • #
    TdeF

    The H1N1 virus now known as the flu was not defeated by antivirals nor by innoculations which did not exist. It was defeated by the appearance of a benign virus which of course spreads quickly and innoculates the planet. This in turn created the deadly myth of herd immunity as the savior, something which never stops the latest flu.

    The original Spanish Flu virus (from America in WW1) is still mutating and Australia loses 2,000 people a year to the latest mutation from the European winter, but not 200,000. And we could reduce that 2,000 by asking sick people to self isolate if sick on return from overseas, especially children who are perennial carriers of the latest fashionable diseases. It is a fact of rapid international travel. We no longer check innoculations at the airport as used to be the case when we were wiser. Just a note that if you do not feel well, contact someone.

    So we wait for the big populations of Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Indonesia to pop up a Wu Flu variant which will save us. And welcome it. You will know when people are infected by just get mildly sick and death rates drop dramatically.

    Until then isolation and antivirals and vaccination will allow us to get back to work. And the only new mutations like the Delta strain can come through airports and a failure of the quarantine system which should have people as far from big populations as possible and not a trust based system. Christmas Island, FNQ, Country towns, places and villages which are built for the purpose and multiple places, to prevent cross infection.

    Of course a benign virus will mean the end of mass vaccinations and billions and it becomes just another flu. When are we sending the bill to President Xi and his generals?

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    • #
      PeterS

      No way will the officials admit that it’s a benign virus. They are all committed to vaccinating everyone or almost everyone. They will escalate the scare campaigns if necessary to make sure it’s done as much as possible. Vaccine passports are now being rolled out in more and more countries as we speak. Those who choose not to be vaccinated will simply have a lot of restrictions placed on them in terms of the movements, jobs and entry to various places. This is not forcing people to be vaccinated. They will claim it’s not even coercion. So, they will claim it’s all legal. Whether enough people rise up to try and arrest this insane push remains to be seen.

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      • #
        Annie

        It is ‘manipulation’ though, which I thought was also illegal.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Interesting watching a commercial news service tonight, the newsreader when commenting on the Sydney anti-lockdown riots said :

        “it would just lengthen the **imprisonment** of the population”…

        or words to that effect

        At least theyre honest….imprisonment….it had to come out eventually.

        I’m not for any form of violence, and I hated watching police horses being pelted with stuff, I do understand the frustration of the population though.

        The SW of Sydney is going to be a horrific headache for the globalist thugs…..

        20

  • #
    Scissor

    Vitamin D supplementation possibly has similar long term effectiveness of the vaccine with little risk of side effects. In fact, side effects need to be considered in addition to efficacy of any treatment, and they are hardly being considered at all in this “pandemic.”

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  • #
    V.

    not so effective and not so safe, either:


    Vaccine Lawsuit Filed: Insider Blows Whistle on Coverup — Exclusive Attorney Interview

    In this exclusive interview, Spiro is joined by Attorney Ana Garner who is a member of the legal team that recently filed a lawsuit against the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

    The lawsuit is focused on the experimental Covid vaccine, the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) and includes sworn testimony from a whistleblower alleging the government reporting systems for adverse reactions to the Covid vaccine is under-reporting deaths by at least five times and projects the real numbers are closer to 45,000 people who died after receiving the vaccine.

    https://www.activistpost.com/2021/07/vaccine-lawsuit-filed-insider-blows-whistle-on-coverup-exclusive-attorney-interview.html

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    • #
      William Astley

      In reply to V.

      Your link worse than junk. The writer of your link, obviously has an agenda (a reason to lie which explains why the article includes lies) and makes multiple statements which are factually incorrect besides alleging that the US government is hiding 1000s of deaths due to the covid vaccines.

      No data, just talk that is not support by hard data. Hard data, ‘evidence’ does not support the assertion that the covid RNA vaccines are killing thousands of people.

      In Canada, health care is provided by the government. In Canada, when there is any unexpected adverse effect to medical treatment… Those suffering go the local liberal news organizations to get their story out. The only covid vaccine deaths reported in Alberta where for AstraZeneca vaccine. For that reason and the fact that AstraZeneca is less effective than the RNA vaccines, AstraZeneca is no longer requested and almost all people who got AstraZeneca for their first vaccination changed to the RNA vaccines.

      Unlike the US, in Canada, lying and making up covid data/vaccine outcome data/hiding vaccine deaths/hiding adverse vaccine reactions will result in loss of job and if the lying is support by a political party, loss of next election and/or decertification of the political party. That makes sense because in Canada there are official common sense checks and balances which stop institution corruption/lying/making up data.

      This is a summary of the adverse effects for more than 5 million covid vaccinations, in the Canadian province of Alberta which is old school conservative. Old school conservatives do not make up or change data. There is zero reason to risk one’s career and there is a high risk of getting caught altering data as there is by law, official recorded, independent investigation of all whistleblower complaints for large Canadian companies and for government departments.

      https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccinations

      846 adverse events following immunization (AEFI) have been reported to Alberta Health. This represents 833 people, and 891 symptoms.
      491 related to Pfizer
      208 related to Moderna
      147 related to AstraZeneca

      Lying makes logical decisions impossible. We need to look out for liars and fake sources.

      https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes

      This link provides covid vaccination data to compare country to country. I see that Israel, population 9 million (small country, people live close together) has single digit covid death rates and days with no covid death rates. I would assume Israel is using Ivermectin as a covid anti-viral to stop deaths in unvaccinated covid patients.

      https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=population&hideControls=true&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=BRA~CHL~FRA~DEU~IND~ISR~GBR~USA~URY~ESP~ITA~ARE~MEX~RUS~CHE~CHN~JPN~THA~ZAF~KOR~AUS~CAN&Metric=People+vaccinated+%28by+dose%29

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      • #
        Fran

        It is nice you are so confident of Canadian monitoring of vaccine adverse effects. I can see no evidenece of this. For those over 60, vascular events are labelled as “natural”, as for my neighbour who had a stroke in the week following her second. The “emergency authorization” should have had a well publicized monitoring program. As it is, reports to Health Canada are “curated” before being added to the adverse effects. The proper way is to take all reports and compare them with background levels. There will be a good PhD thesis in a few years time sorting out whether vaccines saved more than they harmed. Until then, pollyannas like you will continue to pontificate.

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        • #
          William Astley

          In reply to Fran,

          Fran do you have any other evidence besides your neighbour? What is the covid vaccine evidence that concerns you? What is the mechanism by which the RNA vaccine is alleged to cause vascular events? Is there any possibility that your neighbour’s stroke could be caused by other factors?

          For those over 60 who are obese or who are severely Vit D deficient, vascular events are likely, because of long term damage which is caused by eating super amounts of sugar and being Vit. D deficient which also causes vascular events. Vascular events are not natural. Vascular events are caused by something.

          Our diet is super high in sugar which is not ‘natural’ and overtime the sugar, same as alcohol, damages the liver which leads to ‘metabolic syndrome’, a host of chronic ‘diseases’, including depression, vascular events, type 2 diabetes, cancer, amputations, blindness, and so on.

          https://patient.info/healthy-living/alcohol-and-liver-disease/non-alcoholic-fatty-liver-disease

          https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/10314705/Sugar-is-addictive-and-the-most-dangerous-drug-of-the-times.html

          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26376619/
          Sugar consumption, metabolic disease and obesity: The state of the controversy

          Does this make sense?

          It is a scientific fact that sugar causes short term and long-term damage to the liver in a similar way as alcohol. Every time the liver is overloaded with sugar, the human immune system is suppressed for two or three hours which is right on time for the next super sugary meal.

          The average person does not know any of the scientific facts about sugar. In the US, added sugar consumption has increased by more than a factor of ten. In the US, in 1800 the average consumption of added sugar was 18 lbs per year compared to 180 pounds per year in 2009.

          http://www.sugarstacks.com/beverages.htm

          http://www.sugarstacks.com/candy.htm

          Seventy-five per cent of all US health-care dollars are now spent on treating the set of disease the Medical Industry calls ‘Metabolic Syndrome’ ‘diseases’ and their resultant disabilities.

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        • #
          Doc

          Out of interest, with no proof anything is related to the vaccination – hard to do with pre-existing conditions in an 80+ yo, I had an interesting personal experience from being vaccinated with 2 shots.

          A day after receiving the first dose of the particular vaccine, I had an onset of atrial flutter which requires treatment to keep suppressed, and is relatively effective. After the second dose of the same vaccine, but some week or so later, I have suddenly come up with quite high systolic hypertension and recurrent rounds of atrial fibrillation obviously not completely suppressed by the medication.

          There could be therapy changes made to counter the flutter that are responsible, but no other obvious reasons for such responses. The initial opinion of the cardiologist was no relationship to the initial problem, post first shot vaccine. We wait and see.

          The only reason to present my personal situation is to provide some comparison with the patient (neighbour) mentioned above who had a stroke. Such CVA could have come from a cerebral embolism or clot, or from a hypertensive episode by a couple of cardiac mechanisms. I’m simply saying, it can happen naturally, or, if my problems are vaccine related (again, I have no proof of something that could simply be coincidental) then so could her stroke.

          Of course, in timing, everything can also simply be natural phenomena as a consequence of aging processes and unrelated to vaccination. This is where those post vax reports are important and allow a proper statistical analysis to take place.

          50

      • #
        V.

        No data, just talk that is not support by hard data. Hard data, ‘evidence’ does not support the assertion that the covid RNA vaccines are killing thousands of people.

        the evidence is right there in front of your eyes: “whistleblower alleging the government reporting systems for adverse reactions to the Covid vaccine is under-reporting deaths by at least five times and projects the real numbers are closer to 45,000 people who died after receiving the vaccine.”

        sworn affidavit testimony is evidence.

        In Canada, health care is provided by the government. In Canada, when there is any unexpected adverse effect to medical treatment… Those suffering go the local liberal news organizations to get their story out.

        seriously? the msm do no report information contrary to their chosen narratives. there is no fourth estate, just the partnering of media and government in what is apparently becoming a fascist superstate (fascism being, by definition, the partnering of corporations and government).

        oh, and NHS in the UK are now putting out a £3.2 billion tender for blood clot treatments.

        Just completely coincidental, i’m sure.

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  • #
    PeterS

    Doctors and other health officials are now being fired for not being vaccinated. Others are resigning. European countries are making moves to introduce vaccine passports. Greece has already implemented one. Japan just started to use it. I can see it’s only a matter of time we have it here in Australia. It’s all rolling out as expected. Much of the world is in lockdown. Something is happening. I suspect the main driver for all this is to open international borders. I suspect that’s why our governments are so eager to have almost everyone vaccinated. What I’m really concerned about is the health of the people who get the vaccines. If there is a big rise in the death rates over the coming months no one really knows for sure at the moment if it will be due to the virus or the vaccines. I’d bet my bottom dollar the governments and so called health experts will not reveal the truth if it happens to be due to the vaccines.

    431

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      A lot of good points there.

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    • #
      Tilba Tilba

      What I’m really concerned about is the health of the people who get the vaccines.

      Why? In countries like the US, the overwhelming majority of severe and deadly Covid cases are coming from the unvaccinated. Perhaps your concern could be re-directed.

      Sure, there are risks with any vaccine, but the risks from the vaccines are miniscule compared to Covid itself.

      017

      • #
        AC Osborn

        “the overwhelming majority of severe and deadly Covid cases are coming from the unvaccinated” and you actually believe that statement?
        Did you bother to read the Israeli data?
        Do you think it is any different to the USA data.
        The Vaccinated in the USA are spreading the desease just as much as the Unvaccinated.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          If the pfizer vaccine is the same world wide (i.e. in USA, Israel, Uk, Australia ) , then we should logically expect the Israel experience globally.

          10

        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          “the overwhelming majority of severe and deadly Covid cases are coming from the unvaccinated” and you actually believe that statement?

          Yes I do.

          Just try “most covid-19 deaths are among the unvaccinated” in your search engine – lots of reports showing that almost all deaths June-July ( more than 90%) are among the unvaccinated. Far higher than the proportion of the population vaccinated. It’s becoming clearer that the vaccines prevent (or greatly reduce) severe cases.

          How big is the Israeli research sample?

          00

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            The CDC in the US have stopped testing vaccinated people who only show mild symptoms, so this will skew the results, falsely portraying the unvaccinated as a problem, when in fact its not the case.

            https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9566619/CDC-stopped-counting-breakthrough-Covid-infection-fully-vaccinated-people.html

            “CDC has stopped counting every ‘breakthrough’ Covid infection in fully vaccinated people: Experts warn agency’s new method of only collecting data on patients who are hospitalized or die could miss patterns in who gets sick after their shots

            “The CDC is no longer counting every COVID-19 infection among people who fell ill after being fully immunized with the vaccine
            As of May, the agency will now only report on ‘breakthrough’ cases that lead to hospitalization or death

            “So far, 9,245 of at least 95 million Americans fully vaccinated against COVID-19 – 0.009% – later tested positive for the virus

            “Experts warn that not reporting all cases could lead to missed patterns in who gets sick after getting their shots
            They add that scientists could also fail to learn the mechanisms that lead to infections in fully vaccinated people

            “However, at the beginning of May, the CDC revealed it will no longer report all breakthroughs and instead only those that lead to hospitalization or death, as first reported by Bloomberg.

            “According to the CDC, nine percent of the breakthrough infections, or 835, have resulted in hospitalization and one percent, 132 people, have died.

            “But an expert tells DailyMail.com that now is not the time for the federal health agency to change their methods of data collection, and stress that it could lead to missing patterns in who gets sick after their shots.

            30

    • #
      Ozwitch

      I’m waiting to see what the death and hospitalization rates are in the years to come, also the birth rate among vaccinated young people. None of this is available at the moment nor can it be foreseen. Every “flu” season from now on will be a test case for this experimental virus management programme. In 2017 there were about 1300 deaths in Australia due to flu, in 2019 it was over 4,000. In 2020 and 2021 there was a magical disappearance of flu hospitalizations.

      80

      • #

        Ozwitch, you have some wisdom there. I too want that data.

        Be aware though, that the reduction in influenza was not magical — because it has a lower R0 (rate of spread) and a shorter incubation period, it is textbook microbiology that what we did to slow covid would work doubly well against the flu.

        Here in Western Australia we have done 600 tests a week for a whole year and not found 1 single influenza case. But nor have we found Covid. It’s the hard border that stopped both.

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        • #

          very sorry Jo but l dont get it?
          people are told to get tested for the “wung flu” if they display flu like symptoms
          so in WA doing 600 tests a week with not one single influenza case or a case of the big “c”
          what did the people being tested have then?
          being a parent of children who attend school l know we had a reduction of colds and flu in our household over many Victoriastan lockdowns under Dam Andrews but as the children went back to school the colds and flu have become just as regular as they were in the past, with no CCP virus in our area although half of Melbourne is camping in our backyard while the politics is being played out
          the world has treatment’s for this wung flu we do not need a clot shot, of course IMHO

          40

          • #

            Read the report VirusWatch — they had rhinovirus, paramyxo, RSV, metapnumo (nasty one that) and adeno.

            So Common colds. Though metapneumo puts nearly as many people in hospital as the flu does.

            Plus presumably bacterial pnumonia which looks a lot like flu too.

            00

        • #
          Ozwitch

          I’ve done a little more reading on that since you replied and have a better idea on the different ways in which flu and COVID work and spread, so thanks for that. I don’t really understand how flu can be stopped by a competing virus, or if it indeed has been, but I guess nobody has a definitive answer to that yet. The waters are muddied by the financial incentives for medical authorities to count URTIs etc as COVID as well. The truth is somewhere there but hard to detect eh.

          50

          • #
            MP

            When the flu is sleeping, the Rona smothers it with a pillow. Think of any scenario, then say, “science said, experts say, studies show.
            Take a knee, hail the new religion of science, praise the doctors.

            00

        • #
          John Galt

          We, the People, would love a hard border in the USA, but our politicians (and some wealthy meddlers who fund unrestricted immigration, e.g., Soros) are anxious to replace self reliance with dependency.

          20

      • #
        Tilba Tilba

        I hate to think where we would be had the anti-vaxxers triumphed against MMR, polio, tetanus, whooping cough, and much else for kids. And I’ve been taking flu shots every autumn for years – I’m not bumping into the walls yet.

        08

        • #

          Tilba be careful — there is an IQ limit here — and people pretending that all vaccines are identical are not meeting it.

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        • #

          are you seriously saying that the vaccine for ” MMR, polio, tetanus, whooping cough, and much else for kids” is the same experimental vax clot shot that is being used for the CCP virus Tilba?

          l’ve had my flu shot for many years now and am not bumping into the walls either
          well maybe after an occasional few sherbets LOL
          but looking very hard at this thread l could not find any mention from anyone pretending that all vaccines are identical, l would find that concerning.

          just because people do not want to be part of this experiment does not mean they are an anti vaxxer and calling someone an anti vaxxer because they do not wish to be a party to this experiment is the “same” as the cheap shot calling someone a denier because they do not agree totally with the man made climate change theory

          the question is still there though, that if in Western Australia there has been 600 tests a week for a whole year and not found 1 single influenza case But nor has Covid been found, then what was it that caused the flu like symptoms warranting the test being needed? l am sure people are not being tested just because
          this is a genuine question, with respect

          40

          • #
            Tilba Tilba

            just because people do not want to be part of this experiment does not mean they are an anti vaxxer and calling someone an anti vaxxer because they do not wish to be a party to this experiment is the “same” as the cheap shot calling someone a denier because they do not agree totally with the man made climate change theory

            I think the analogy is perfectly reasonable. Anyone who refuses to have their child vaccinated against MMR – on whatever grounds – is an anti-vaxxer, whether they like the term or not.

            I think it’s reasonable to also label those against the Covid-19 vaccines as anti-vaxxers … particularly if they use scare quotes around the word “vaccine”, or use the word “experimental” … these are codewords from the anti-vax movement – is there any dispute about that?

            It’s not a “cheap shot” – it’s calling a spade a spade. even if the anti-vaxxers don’t like it, they don’t make the rules.

            In terms of global warming, I’m firmly in the camp that says the increase in atmospheric CO2 caused by humans is heating the planet, and that isn’t a good thing. This is occurring in addition to whatever other background activity is occurring, in respect of solar strength, oceans, and so on.

            Those who do not believe that CO2 increases caused by human activity are leading to global warming – or in more extreme adherents, believe that increased CO2 is a good thing for the planet – I don’t think they should be blatantly called “deniers” either. It just inflames emotions and inhibits debate.

            In the same way that it’s utterly ridiculous the way the Right calls anyone who is anti-Trump, or pro the ABC, or pro-workers “communists” or “Marxists” as a term of supposed abuse.

            My biggest issue with anthropogenic global warming is what we do about it. I think the techno-fixes are misguided and a huge misallocation of resources – wind turbines, solar panels, big batteries, and EVs.

            They will be required eventually, both for global warming reasons, and because of peak oil, but target dates of 2025, 2030, 2035 … these are unrealistic and harmful.

            05

            • #

              Calling people who take 90% of vaccines an anit-vaxxer is just namecalling and you know it.

              “…if the anti-vaxxers don’t like it, they don’t make the rules.”

              Actually, in a democracy, they do.

              If people don’t like your solution, convince them…

              40

            • #
              clarence.t

              or use the word “experimental”

              Which it undoubtedly is.

              Are facts an anathema to you TT ?

              Don’t they matter ?

              30

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              Kalm Keith

              You have obviously never given the time and effort to educating yourself to a satisfactory level.

              Unfortunately it shows in your “follow the leader” type comments coming from you.

              Some might see that as sad, others might also detect arrogance.

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              clarence.t

              “…. that CO2 increases caused by human activity are leading to global warming”

              Yet I bet you can’t produce a single bit of real scientific evidence to back that up.

              Science and facts and evidence…….

              … you seem to have a far-left disdain for them.

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            Kalm Keith

            I used to be very unhappy about the group up north who refused vaccines many years ago. They did other stuff though and MaryJane was the go.

            More recently I’ve become a bit more wary and didn’t take the annual flu shot. Then I took a couple and the next year there were some terrible reports of bad reactions. I stopped.

            Then I hear about a vaccination programme somewhere in Africa that was supported by the Gates using one of the vaccines I had wanted as a child; may have been polio. Bad reports. Then I wondered, has the early format been changed, is it manufactured in the same way, or is it experimental.

            Who knows how much our governments care about us anymore. They’re happy and apparently that’s the only important thing.

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      • #
        Stuart

        It’s the demographic bubble, too many old people for the economy, in years to come people will be dying of strokes and heart attacks before they get to 65. problem solved. Oh and if you have a stroke but live, there are new euthanasia laws coming online to fix that. Not saying someone planned it this way but the unintended concequences have a silver lining for economists.

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  • #
    TdeF

    While everyone misses travel, it was a massive relatively new phenomenon of the last fifty years.

    Prior to the 1960s very few people were at all mobile even between states or countries, so it ended 100,000 years of moving very slowly. You certainly could not drop into America or England or Dubai for a day. Two years ago you could.

    Now tourism is the one huge industry which is really suffering at every point. Meanwhile manufacturing, agriculture, mining, transportation, even shipping are largely unaffected. Couriers are flat out delivering. So the other industry is shop based retailing and fast food, but those are an acceleration of the Amazon effect, not something avoidable. Education, health, taxation and the public service are fine. In Victoria two pay rises in a year and now the teachers want one.

    So what really is the problem, except perhaps Australia which has been hooked on educating huge numbers of Chinese students but that and the attempted economic strangulation by China are nothing to do with the virus. It’s an old control trick, make someone dependent and then withdraw the support. It was all planned. What was unknown was how the world would react and whether world leaders like Donald Trump and Boris Johnson would actually survive.

    Perhaps the biggest problem facing the world is that of the origin of the virus as a bioweapon deliberately spread if inadvertently released. After, why build a Viral weapon laboratory and not use it? It is the cheapest and deadliest denial stealth weapon in the arsenal and there may be more to come.

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      Tilba Tilba

      It’s an old control trick, make someone dependent and then withdraw the support. It was all planned.

      Is there evidence of this “planning”? And what would be the motivation for it?

      Perhaps the biggest problem facing the world is that of the origin of the virus as a bioweapon deliberately spread if inadvertently released.

      We do not know that the virus was a deliberately created bioweapon, or indeed that it was a US-funded gain-of-function pandemic-vaccine research project.

      There is no evidence it was intentionally released – and equally there’s no evidence that it was deliberately spread by China outside China. What would be the point?

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        AC Osborn

        It si obvious from your responses that you read “headlines” and not the actual data sources.
        If you read the data sources on the COVID origin you would not make such statements.

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    RicDre

    US Parents Sue Over Clandestine Covid-19 School Vaccination Programme Which Does NOT Require Parental Consent

    Guest essay by Eric Worrall

    If you live in Washington DC, and your child comes home a bit wobbly, there is a chance the school you entrust with their care just gave them a clandestine Covid jab. Without talking to you about it first, or even warning you afterwards to keep a close watch on your child for adverse vaccine reactions.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/07/23/us-parents-sue-over-clandestine-covid-19-school-vaccination-programme-which-does-not-require-parental-consent/

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    • #

      Wow. Really?

      And there are not protests in the street?

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        RicDre

        It’s Washington, D.C. which is often described as city enclosed by a highway and surrounded by reality.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Which votes over 90% for the Democrat nominee in presidential elections.

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          • #
            RicDre

            Which is why the Democrats want to make Washington DC a “State”…they’d get two additional Senators and at least one congressman.

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        Leon L

        The quotes risk reductions are relative risk numbers.
        What are the absolute risk reductions?
        RRRs are meaningless. Used to inflate effectiveness.

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        • #

          Relative risk is more useful than you think. The absolute risk has little meaning because it can change overnight and comes and goes with waves. The risk of catching covid will be different in every nation, different postcodes, different months. What I want to know is the relative risk. I already have a good idea of my absolute risk of being exposed. But if I were vaccinated, I want to know if and when I am exposed to covid, will the vax help?

          The absolute risk brings in a whole lot of other variables which clouds and dilutes the numbers.

          Absolute risk is useful with things like figuring out the odds of preventing say brain cancer, where a fifty percent reduction sounds good but doesn’t save many lives because few people will suffer it. It’s not useful when looking at a new pandemic likely to become endemic within a few years which means we end up having a 100% chance of being exposed.

          Of course, the virus in 2022 may be quite different and the current vax quite useless then, not just because protection has worn off, but because the vax might not work in the first place against a new mutation.

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            Analitik

            And the virus may attenuate even more than the Delta variant has from the earlier ones. Genes don’t propagate well when they kill their hosts.

            Mutations work in both directions.

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            • #

              No but the mutations are driven by “what spreads fastest” not what the mortality rate is.

              In chickens the viruses that spread fastest are the ones that neutralise the leaky vaccines. By definition they are more deadly to the poor unvacced chickens.

              IT’s so bad we separate babies from parents for three weeks til they get 100% vaxed.

              Who wants to live like a domestic chicken?

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                Analitik

                High mortality naturally stops the spread of a variant if there are variants that are less lethal and at least compatible transmissibility.

                The leaky vaccine issue is that depending on the mutations that tend to escape, it can eliminate the attenuated variants leaving the more lethal variants to spread. This can only occur when vaccination with the leaky vaccine is universal.

                In an environment where natural recovery and resulting immunity is the primary or even merely a significant portion of the response, a virus will attenuate.

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              • #

                Yes. I agree. That’s a good summation. I just add the priviso that natural evolution can get nastier — as Spanish Flu did — at least temporarily.

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      Lance

      Additional article on same subject:

      https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20210719/lost-exemptions

      “Under the cover of the pandemic, the D.C. City Council passed an act authorizing schools to administer vaccines to children as young as 11-years-old without their parent’s consent….. It allows students to get vaccines at school without notifying their parents, and even authorizes schools to go behind parents’ back and bill their health insurance without their knowledge.”…. “To make matters worse, the law explicitly undermines parents with religious objections to certain vaccines, mandating that spaces on the student’s immunization record be left “blank” — presumably so the state can quietly fill them in later. Republican lawmakers tried to block the D.C. Act in February, but House Speaker Nancy Pelosi prevented a vote on their Congressional Resolution of Disapproval.”

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      Tilba Tilba

      There is a double-edged sword here.

      While it would seem unnecessary to blanket vaccinate those under 18 – primarily on the grounds that the impact of the Covid virus on that cohort is mostly mild – there are strong principles at play.

      I don’t think anti-vaxxer adults should be allowed to compel their children to not receive MMR and other childhood vaccines, and similarly, young people should have every right to sex education, and also contraception and abortion services – not requiring parental consent, or even knowledge.

      Children have rights the moment they’re born … they’re not property in a legal sense.

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      • #

        And for those of us who understand biology, which person or organization has the best interests of children at heart?

        Would that be their parents after 500 million years of evolution, or The Communist Party apparatchiks?

        Oh the dilemma…?

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        AC Osborn

        Stop confusing MMR with experimental vaccines that only have Emergency use authorisations.
        For the US under 18s the risk from the Vaccines are higher than the risks from the Desease.
        More children have already died from vaccine associated problems than from COVID-19.
        You need to do some reading.

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    • #
      Lance

      Not only do we need unadulterated data, we need transparency, accountability, and antiviral options. An endless series of pointless jabs isn’t rational. Especially for those under 18 yrs of age.

      “A team of Johns Hopkins researchers recently reported that when studying a group of about 48,000 children, they found zero COVID deaths among healthy kids, but the Centers for Disease Control doesn’t care.”

      https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/21/johns-hopkins-study-found-zero-covid-deaths-among-healthy-kids/

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        OriginalSteve

        One quote I heard went along the lines that they expected the first round if vaccines to wane in protection, but the real kicker is that the more vaccines for the new vaccine induced variants, means a compounding spike protein/graphene issue in the body.

        Could it be that they knew the vaccines would wane in effect, thus opening the door to delivering a cocktail of drugs to eventually cause systemic organ failure ( and death?).

        Its easy to destroy a country if its front line workers, military and medical staff have been effectively poisoned to death….

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        Annie

        Sorry Lance, unintended red. It should have been a green.

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    John R Smith

    Haven’t we moved the goal posts from ‘mitigate’ the impact to ‘eliminate’ the threat?
    In other words, Net Zero.
    I’m having Deja Vu all over again.
    Maybe the same process that removes CO2 from the environment can remove viruses too.
    With Science, the possibilities for good doing are infinite.

    (Oh and Ozzies, don’t chat with your neighbors, chit chat does not advance the the goals of the State. Here in America, we just quote Bidenisms, which have Net Zero communicative content, so we’re ok.)

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      PeterS

      Yes that’s the mantra at the moment. Vaccinate everyone to get the number of cases to zero, both of which are so unrealistic it’s not funny; actually very sad. It’s pure hysteria and yet the MSM and so many ordinary people are sucked into believing their BS, just like the hysteria over CAGW. Slowly but surely they are working towards a full blown fascist state (not communism) where big business and governments are in it together to screw the rest of us.

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        No. Zero is achievable, but Gladys keeps trying to cut corners which comes with a horrible price — it’s taking far too long to get out of lockdown. She was too late, did too little, allowed too many people to roam.

        There is no “living with Delta” unless we have mass antivirals or mass vaccination, and we don’t have either at the moment (though we could get mass antivirals in there in a week). Australia has plenty of pharmaceutical grade ivermectin. Kilotons of it.

        The only number that doesn’t go exponential is zero.

        Even without antivirals Sydney can do this, but the slow path is torture. My heart goes out to Sydney-siders but the failures are obvious.

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        • #
          tonyb

          Cases still very small but seems to be spreading, despite the extended and repeated lockdowns
          .
          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9817467/Sydneys-Covid-outbreak-declared-national-emergency.html

          Jo, you write ‘she did too little, allowed too many people to roam.”

          Reading of the quite draconian lockdowns and travel restrictions in many parts of OZ, I do not really know what you mean by allowing too many people to roam. You can not lock people down for ever. Are you suggesting house arrest for a month? 6 months? 2 years?

          Unless enforced by extreme extended measures-harsher than a quarantine hotel-lockdowns do not work, as we have surely found over here and in Europe. Locking people up in their homes only spreads the virus as Boris admitted a few months ago. Masks seem to have very little impact unless they are medical grade and worn like a surgeon would, but 99/9% of people don’t do that and inferior masks just give a sense of false security.

          General advice; Keep your distance. Don’t go to internal crowded places. Be sensible. Avoid hospitals and care homes. Keep fit, get rid of excess weight. As for use of existing medicines-yes there is evidence they work depending on how quickly and effectively they are applied. There should be much more research on this

          Deaths over here remain well below the 10 year average. There is no sign (as yet) of undue deaths from the vaccine. So to my list I would add take the vaccination, if you can not do all the other things mentioned, unpopular though that may be

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            RickWill

            The curfew and travel restrictions mentioned in that article are not in place yet.

            NSW does not have curfews or even travel restrictions within the State apart from nominated local government areas. It appears health officials have not had face-to-face meetings with the first generation immigrants or indigenous leaders who are inevitably skeptical of the need to isolate to prevent virus spread. Masks are not mandatory off own premises.

            NSW is fiddling at the fringes. All controls now in place there had marginal impact in Victoria. They have not yet got the infection rate under 1. Victoria got it well below 1 once travel restrictions and curfews were introduced.

            Curfews and work permits dramatically improves ability of police to restrict movement. Victoria did not issue work permits for thieves, drug dealers and sex workers as examples. Those activities plummeted during the curfew. Drug addicts were permitted to travel more than 5km to the only government run drug clinic.

            The excess deaths in the UK in 2020 over 5 year average was 75k:
            https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fexcessdeathsinenglandandwales2020final%2f2020/excessdeaths2020reftable.xlsx

            Excess deaths in the USA for 2020 was 570k.

            Australia recorded significantly lower than average deaths in 2020 compared with previous years. Some weeks during the Victorian lockdown were lower than the 95% bound of the data:
            https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-excess-mortality-victoria-during-covid-19-pandemic

            Victoria currently has a 5km travel restriction but no curfew. The infection rate is well below 1 and it appears there is no longer roaming spreaders. It was originally set as a 5 day lockdown but should end up being 11 days. The contact tracing is now much more effective than in 2020. There have been more than 18k people self-isolating as a result of just a handful of roaming spreaders at major sporting events.

            Effective border controls is least painful. Short, sharp severe lockdowns are the best option once there are roaming spreaders. The start slow and build to complete shutdown as hospitals are overrun is by far the worst option.

            If Isreal’s experience on the limited life of immunity from vaccinations then the vaccinations will not offer the relief expected.

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              Ozwitch

              Border controls are extremely painful for those who live on the border. Not painful for those in Melbourne perhaps, but we in the border region of VIC/NSW live in daily dread of another border closure, which affects hundreds of businesses, schools, hospital and health systems (we are one health system in Albury Wodonga and the chaos that created will never be forgotten). It’s a nightmare. Don’t wish that upon us just because it matters little to you.

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                RickWill

                The best way to handle those locations is like the situation on the VIC-SA border where the actual control is extended away from the border to the unpopulated outskirts of the border town. Victorian residents living near the border could travel up to 50km into the state to work, shop and a few other permitted activities without getting specific travel permits.

                Of course Dan and Gladys would need to be on speaking terms to get that sorted for Albury-Woodonga and all the other twin towns straddling the border. It is not unusual for State authorities to work co-operatively. It is a requirement for effective policing for example.

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              • #

                Ozwitch, I hear you on the borders. What I wished Scott morrison would do is to get the states to agree to a system where those poor border town communities would be temporarily assigned as one unit to whichever state had the clean slate. In other words, the actual covid fence should go in north of Albury-Wodonga when the outbreak starts in Sydney, and south of the twin-towns when the outbreak starts in Melbourne.

                So for the period of lockdowns, the border towns become a part of the other state.

                Where is the leadership?

                This would make it easy — if lockdowns were installed fast on capital cities — to keep the virus out of those border communities and keep their lives normal.

                The alternative is that they get hit twice as often because of outbreaks in either Capital. And they have horrible long daily queues to cross the line.

                A serious border would also mean trucks dropped their loads and new drivers and cabs picked up the load and finished the journey.

                That would have stopped the outbreak getting to Melbourne this time. No 11 day lockdown needed at all.

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                Annie

                Not to mention those of us in Nth Central Vic and other areas that have had no ‘cases’ and still don’t have any.
                5km is not possible here @RickWill; we are much too far from shops, medical centres etc. for that to be possible.

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                AC Osborn

                Jo, surely the Mexico City Track, Trace & Treat with Iveremctin is the preferred procedure.
                They not only treat the ill person, but all their associates as well with Ivermectin as a Prophylactic or early treatment.

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          Fran

          Net Zero! Ha Ha Ha. Look at Israel with going on half their hospitalizations in the “fully vaccinated”.

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          MrGrimNasty

          There can only be a handful of people in the entire world that still honestly believe a zero covid strategy via lockdowns is possible or worthwhile, it’s a fantasy.

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            Ozwitch

            Lockdowns are blackmail, pure and simple.

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            • #

              To stop lockdowns we need 1/ Good hard borders and 2 / Antivirals.

              Protests about lockdowns after the fact, and with no plan to prevent them is too late and totally useless.

              The people who know Covid Elimination can work are often the ones trained in microbiology.

              See Victoria. They will get out of lockdown before Sydney will. Half-baked semi-lockdowns are horrible.

              Those who can’t see the possibility and obvious quality of life with Zero Chinese Bioweapons just lack imagination… :- )

              Don’t punch me OK?

              The best way to stop mandatory vaccinations is to get rid of Covid.
              The best way to have normal freedom, no masks, and a healthy economy is to get rid of Covid.

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                Analitik

                Widespread adoption of anti-virals is enough. Cowering behind closed borders is not a long term solution. It bought us time for the virus to attenuate to the Delta variant.

                It’s time to get on with life, business and fighting the true enemy (The People’s Front of Judea)

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              • #

                no Jo
                the best way to stop mandatory vaccinations is using the treatments already available 😉
                instead of playing with fear to seduce the people into a vaccine experiment clot shot

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                OriginalSteve

                It seems the hidden game is creating a never ending plandemic.

                A never ending “war on covid” ( the same bug the globalists appear to have created )! This kills economies by bleeding govts dry of money, and eventually kills most of the population by literally vaccinating them to death…..

                The sat anic globalists hate humanity as they see humans as killing thier pagan goddess Gaia, aka the planet.

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          PeterS

          Hooping for sero cases is like hooping for zero cases of the flu. Get real Jo, you too are now talking nonsense.

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            🙂

            Said with a smile… “Get Real Peter” — Check the data yourself. WA has No Flu. Zero Flu. Not one single case of Influenza since July last year. Though at least 30,000 influenza tests have been done.

            Hate to say so, but I’m still right about this virus. Learn virology and you can be too.

            Here’s WA data 11th July:

            None of the 836 specimens submitted for influenza PCR testing at PathWest were positive in the past week (Figure 5). The last PCR positive influenza sample reported by PathWest was in July 2020.

            See https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/F_I/Infectious-disease-data/Virus-WAtch

            You stepped into that one Peter. Sorry!

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              Raving

              Yes I agree that zero cases are possible. The Atlantic provinces of Canada are an example.

              Atlantic Canada is a bit of a backwater. Requires a commitment to severe lockdowns and closed boarders.

              Alway a risk of reinfection leaking across the boarder

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          Robert Swan

          The only number that doesn’t go exponential is zero.

          Oh dear. The old hockey stick alarm is it? Yes, it’s mathematically true, but nothing in the real world grows exponentially. Things can look that way for a while, but the real world runs out of stuff well before mathematics runs out of numbers. Where will the curve *really* go? There’s the question.

          Like attempts to reduce climate to a single “CO2 sensitivity” number, reducing an epidemic to a single “r number” is a scare tactic. See also “complexity monster”.

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          • #

            What is reality but a lot of “for a whiles” in a row?

            I never said things grow exponential forever. (I mean, who would?) C’mon Robert, viruses grow exponentially long enough to kill some, give long covid to some, and to cause many to stop shopping or going out which cripples the economy. Saying that viruses stop growing exponentially at some point is like saying we all die at some point, so being alive is irrelevant.

            Zero covid = freedom from Chinese Bioweapons. Freedom from masks. Freedom from forced vaccination.
            I know it’s hard to imagine, but we in WA are living it 95% of the time.

            And most of Eastern Australia would be too if one limo driver in Sydney didn’t catch it and spread it.

            Hard borders = freedom within the borders.

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              Robert Swan

              You invoke Freedom (capitalised too!) a few times there. To me, they read as “freedom is slavery”. What freedom do you really have if covid is at the centre of all your plans?

              Joanne, I agree with you on many things you say in your pandemic postings: the need for real quarantine, proper border closures, the search for treatments are all critical when faced with serious epidemic diseases. What I disagree with you about is that COVID-19 is such a disease. It simply isn’t.

              What will happen if a truly serious epidemic comes up? Our public health authorities are now going to think feeble measures like masks and lockdowns are going to be useful, and all the imagined nightmares will come true. With luck, it won’t happen in our lifetimes. Then again, if SARS-CoV-2 really is a Chinese bioweapon, what’s to stop them sending something properly bad next time? The fearful overreaction of the whole West can only have encouraged them.

              The reason to discourage you from overstating the threat of this disease is to prevent complacency. What do you think most people’s take-home from this disease is so far? Quite like working from homeWent out of businessShame Granny died… Not really much to make a disaster movie, is it?

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        • #
          Lawrie

          Gladys needs to read this article and tell her CHO to do the same if for no other reason than to have her realise that there are other avenues to be explored. What she never does at her boring 1100 hrs “briefing” is tell us how many of her cases are in hospital and how many are on ventilators. She also forgets to mention the people on the edge who are about to lose or who have lost their businesses and homes due to her ridiculous blanket restrictions. She also does not mention those who have taken their lives out of despair or are losing their lives due to delays in seeking medical attention for their conditions. The premiers and their health advisers are responsible for widespread desolation. They need to be on $600 a week just so they can be in it together. At $8000 to $12000 per week they really do not have any idea of what they are making the average worker endure. It is also obvious that none of our leaders are capable of leading.

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            Annie

            I have never watched these briefings/pressers. Too much pontificating that just raises my bp with anger.

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            • #
              Annie

              That’s because presenters on Sky will insist on inflicting snippets of them on us. Beginning not to bother with Sky either; sick of it all.

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            Kalm Keith

            Well said and totally on target.

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          Peter C

          The only number that doesn’t go exponential is zero.

          I thought any number less than 1 would do.

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        • #
          kraka

          mass antivirals or mass vaccination-ke?
          We have already established that mass vaccinations dont work (read Israel, Iceland and Gibraltar)

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      • #
        • #

          Not. We know that peer review is corrupt. Why would a peer review decision tell us anything about science?
          How does one retration neutralize all the other studies?

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          Analitik

          A supporting study being withdrawn is not the same as a disproving study being validated.

          Lots more sobering stories exist for Remdesevir yet that still get approved despite the huge expense for treatments.

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    John Galt

    This ‘study’ is just a smokescreen … AGAIN.
    The real study should be comparing results of being jabbed against not being jabbed.
    If the so-called ‘vaccine’ has any effectiveness it has to be computed versus control groups.
    Simultaneously the anti-viral treatments must also be tracked as a comparison to give
    people the data they need to decide what is the best treatment with the least risk.
    On the risk issue, any study must also include the side effects of any treatment in
    the results of that treatment.
    Until side effects are known by extensive testing of the vaccines, the risks are much too high, imo.

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      I want that data too. But its my understanding that “efficacy” means in comparison to people who weren’t vaccinated. Hence 70% efficacy means 70% of people who are vaccinated won’t catch it compared to a group of 100 unvaccinated who will.

      I don’t think its a simple calculation because without challenge trials where we try to infect people we have to wait for two groups of people to be exposed and see how the vaccination rates compare.

      But there will be fine details on that that I am not aware of.

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      • #
        tonyb

        Jo

        Do not know if this may help, it gives NHS data on efficacy

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9817867/Covid-admissions-level-Britain-didnt-vaccines.html

        In my experience people expect too much. Older people were getting the first jab and and saying they were seeing their grandchildren the next day!

        Once they have had 2 jabs many think they are invincible and take less care. It seems to be pretty effective however if you are sensible.

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        Ozwitch

        My understanding of efficacy in the context of vaccines is how long the body will protect against the virus after the vaccine shot is delivered. I’ve seen many reports that efficacy is dropping the longer the period after the shot, which is why they are talking about third and fourth booster shots. We will be slaves to this vaccine policy every year.

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        • #

          Hmm. Ozwitch — “you’ve seen reports”? Perhaps you read the post you are commenting on? 😉

          Tonyb, you are right. People are overestimating the vaccine. We can’t blame them when the dishonest politicians keep pretending this works “like with smallpox”.

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        • #
          Russ Wood

          The whole governmental push (ALL governments) is that “The vaccine is the answer – so get vaccinated!” Unfortunately, the answer is ’42’. Which, of course (apologies to the Hitchhiker’s Guide) has no meaning.

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      Analitik

      Someone linked to an article where that was done and the numbers suggested that the vaccinated were 5x more likely than the unvaccinated to
      1. get the Delta variant
      2. become symptomatic
      but only twice as likely to
      3. get hospitalized
      4. enter ICU

      This was when the Israeli fully vaccinated level was around 57% so there was some skew in the ratio.
      https://gilad.online/writings/2021/7/14/a-catastrophe-unveils-itselfnbsp

      The problem is that it sources data from the Israeli government health site and I can’t read Hebrew to verify the figures.

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        Tilba Tilba

        Figures in the US (with a hugely bigger sample size than these Israeli studies) indicate that 99% of serious cases | hospitalisations | deaths in America are now among the unvaccinated. This is despite the fact that some 60% of all adults have been vaccinated.

        What does this tell us?

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  • #
    John F Hultquist

    From the post: ” While the real influenza disease gives lifelong protection — and antibodies are still detectable over 50 years later ”

    Whoa! – – the first time I’ve heard this.
    More info please.
    Years ago (25 or so) I had a bad case of flu. But I recovered at home without hospital care. Further, there were no test taken to reveal what exactly I had. That now seems to be a lapse in judgement, but in defense this was before the internet supplied information as we now have (for example: Joannenova . com).
    Anyway, since then annual flu shots have been promoted and these I have gotten. So Question — Are these needed?

    Change of subject: In the USA and other places the initial (official) word was to “flatten the curve” and that has happened. Where I live, anyone that wanted vaccinated has had that opportunity. Many resist. Nevertheless, hospitals and clinics are not swamped and there are few (or no) deaths from Covid.
    Many of us have used the information provided on this and other blogs to start or increase useful supplements (Vit D3, Zinc, and so on). In such places, but not others, most people (97% ?!) are moving on.

    Putting these ideas together – –
    I likely do not need annual flu shots; and
    I do need a booster Covid shot.

    Ideas welcomed. Thanks, John

    _ _ _ _ _ _
    I’ve decided to use 97% for every WAG I make; if everyone does so it will trivialize that number.

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      John, be careful! You’ll only have natural immunity to some flu strains. Humans get a real flu (influenza type A) every five years or so. They have names like H1N1, H1N2, H2N2, H3N2, H5N1, H5N2, H5N8.

      And there are subtypes of H1N1
      –Brevig Mission/1/1918
      –Russian Flu 1977: Influenza A/USSR/90/77 (H1N1).
      –Swine flu 2009: Pandemic H1N1/09 virus
      –A/Beijing/22808/2009
      — … (lots and lots of H1N1)…

      If you had, say H1N1 10 years ago, you’ll still be protected against that exact subtype. You’ll have some protection against it’s nearest relatives, like other subtypes of H1N1, and part protection (a bit) against theoretical strains like H1N2. But it won’t help much against H3N2. You can still catch a H1N1 different subtype but it won’t be that bad.

      A lot of older people didn’t get sick in 2009 when authorities thought they might. It turned out old H1N1 type flu’s from decades earlier gave them protection.

      IF you have used flu shots for years, you have missed out (maybe?) on catching the latest strains, and that may mean you are now at higher risk of getting quite sick with the next one.

      So once people start using flu vaccines, its’ better probably to stay on them. Young people may put off starting that process, but at some point it makes more sense to get the flu vax. Healthy people who can fight off the flu may figure they are better off getting longer immunity. Because some years the flu vax doesn’t match the newer strains and having natural immunity is an advantage.

      And there are many new and different influenza combinations we can get because pigs, ducks, birds, horses all have their own versions of influenza and they can jump species, so there are a lot to “mix”. Eg H17N10 was isolated from fruit bats in 2012

      Covid Vax? I feel duty bound to say that the side effects appear to be worse than they are reporting, but at the same time, if you can’t get some kind of preventative prophylactic antiviral, the vaccines against covid make sense for people in higher risk groups. Death rates with the UK variant in older are worse than the vax. Eg Worst case; Men over 85years had a mortality rate of 24% in the UK. I will try to dig up those numbers. Exactly what age the cut off is, I don’t know. But there is always the risk of long covid too.

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        StephenP

        If you take an antiviral having been exposed to Covid, do you develop sufficient antibodies or do you need to experience longer exposure to the virus?
        If you take antivirals prophylactically, do you develop immunity to Covid if exposed to the virus?

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          StephenP, great questions. I wish I knew. Why don’t we know that? It is criminally culpable that those studies have not been done.

          What if antivirals could allow us to catch it and gain immunity safer than the Vax?

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        John F Hultquist

        Makes sense. Thanks.

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        PeterS

        It can be argued the safest way to be immunised against the virus is to have the virus itself. Also, those who are tested positive are likely to be better immunised to the virus than those who take the vaccines, which are already shown to be of questionable value yet carry with them certain risks that are on top of the virus itself. A Bayesian statistical study needs to the done and kept running to see if one is better off getting the virus and not the vaccine compared to getting the vaccine with and without the virus. It will require a lot of data and time to get to the truth. Meanwhile, discussions around the merits of the vaccine is speculation at best and deceptive at worst.

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        Stuart

        a Forensic immunologist once told me that the flu vax was for one type of flu that year, she advised me to miss the shot every two or three years to add to my natural immunity, for the last 20 years I have had the flu vax but missed a year every now and again, haven’t had a bad flu in those 20 years. I’m not anti-vax, just wary.

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    Global Cooling

    Or there is another reason for reduced hospitalization than vaccines. For example, vulnerable, old and sick people are better protected. They may have had the virus already. They have more sun, vitamin D, Zinc. Or they have lost excess weight, got rid of diabetes.

    Governments should not think that there is one solution that should be forced with command and control style.

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      Hospitalization rates will be lower in the Northern summer now because of Vitamin D.

      Viral loads can matter too. So the way people are collecting together in crowded rooms (or being outdoors) will affect severity, as can mask wearing.

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        MrGrimNasty

        The infection rate in the UK is highest in the young currently, peak infection rate is at about aged 20, it’s currently low in the elderly/very elderly age groups.

        You wouldn’t expect a bunch of hospitilizations/deaths because it’s usually a mild disease in younger age groups.

        This isn’t confirmation the vaccinations are preventing infection, the same thing happened in the last wave, then it spread up the age groups. So too early to see if vaccinations are really helping much or not.

        https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1491/syoa/index.html

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        Ozwitch

        Apparently more people died from bacterial infections caused by mask wearing than died of the Spanish flu in 1919-20. Coming on top of worldwide food shortage and other environmental issues from WW1 this was the last straw for many. Unable to breathe fresh air but re-breathing germs all day the vulnerable who had survived the Spanish flu, succumbed to infections caused by an ill-thought out mask wearing protocol.

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        • #
          Ozwitch

          Link to the above

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            The bacteria getting into people’s masks (because they don’t wash their masks properly) is only the bacteria that already live in their lungs, mouth and nose.

            I am *extremely* skeptical that that causes many deaths at all. We can swab any totally healthy maskless population and find deadly germs up their noses every day.

            Tens of thousands of doctors have been wearing masks for years while working with dangerous infections. If it was increasing their death rate I think they would have protested.

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              Ozwitch

              It’s a well known issue following the Spanish flu and many studies have been done on it, including one by Fauci. It’s the wearing of the mask day in day out that contributes. Doctors and surgeons change their masks regularly. People don’t. They also remove them once surgery is over. There are many deadly germs in our noses but we normally allow our nasal hairs and lungs to breathe them out by sneezing, coughing etc. Doing this inside a mask allows reinfection.

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            Serp

            Where is it?

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    Furiously Curious

    Is Ivermectin the world’s greatest placebo?! OK we are told it doesn’t work, so hundreds of thousands of people who have taken it, have mistakenly believed they were cured. So there should be findings somewhere of people suddenly spontaneously relapsing, into full blown covid19, after a bit of a hiatus? Any sign? There should be cursing and denunciations! Lawsuits! The quaks at the coalface should be in trepidation. I haven’t heard of any, but there must be thousands of doctors around who have given IVM a try, found it didn’t work, and have spoken up?

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      Kalm Keith

      🙂

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      Fran

      One of the characteristics of placebos is that they are temporary. Take the person who uses the latest supplement to treat their ills and sings its praises. After a period of time they switch to the “new” latest one and sing its praises. The signature of an active agent is that its use continues. A good example is acetaminophen (paracetamol)which people who use it effectively use it for a lifetime. Unfortunately doctors are the last to drop an ineffective agent.

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    greggg

    From a 2008 study
    ‘A study of the blood of older people who survived the 1918 influenza pandemic reveals that antibodies to the strain have lasted a lifetime’
    ‘From the B cells of three donors, the research group generated five monoclonal antibodies that not only strongly neutralized the 1918 virus, but also cross-reacted with proteins related to the 1930 swine flu virus. However, the antibodies did not react against more contemporary influenza strains.’

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2008/08/researchers-find-long-lived-immunity-1918-pandemic-virus

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    Don B

    “America’s Frontline Doctors, a nonprofit, filed a motion on July 19 seeking immediate injunctive relief to stop the emergency use authorization (EUA) of COVID-19 vaccines for three groups of Americans: anyone under the age of 18, anyone who has recovered from COVID-19, and those who haven’t given informed consent as defined by federal law.

    “The motion was filed against Xavier Becerra, Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and other defendants in a federal district court in the Northern District of Alabama.

    “The emergency declaration and its multiple renewals are illegal,” the complaint (pdf) alleges.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/nonprofit-sues-hhs-to-immediately-stop-emergency-use-authorization-of-covid-19-vaccine_3913266.html?utm_source=Morningbrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2021-07-23&mktids=6956abd6f193cdb43571ebcba7cc82cb&est=A5O7%2FPI5%2BWfg7G0%2Fz75cJVTNKJB%2B4mYZgMkm5zpfCcOrCDxL5f9tVMAdFN5W

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    Kalm Keith

    Stop, step back, take a look at the big picture.

    The world has been in Political Crisis now for a decade, with total breakdown of borders in the U.S. and Europe and unidentified forces removing credible government in those areas.

    Unsurprisingly the framework for the collapse seems to be installed now in Australia with state governments using the “horrendous” CV19 Super Dangerous Pandemic as a justification for crowd control and “guidance”; for our own good, of course.

    In past years we all got mild “head colds” and, less frequently, the flu and mostly seemed to survive.

    The thing we weren’t aware of in those days was that we had actually had a “case” which in 2021 polyspeak is very worrying.

    The recent political hype over the number of Delta strain “cases” is illustrative of the fact that politics has taken over the management of The CV19 Virus and ignored what’s usually the progression of the virus.

    As most would understand it, the first contact with the new virus is serious in its capacity to damage people. Then a succession of new strains appears which spread more rapidly but are less damaging to the host.

    Currently even our Premiers are acknowledging this so why the super hype about Cases which are acknowledged to be Less Deadly and are the expected norm.

    So, step back and look at civilization collapsing and work out where CV19 fits in. BLM, Yellow Vests, riots throughout Africa etc.

    Addendum.
    There’s a rumour that the “Annual Flu” shot will become a Monthly Jab starting in 2022. As a transvaxxite I look forward to participating in that too.

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      RickWill

      What a bleak, one-sided perspective you paint. I think you should stop watching their ABC.

      Victoria has worked through the harshest lockdown of any location on the globe. The lockdowns were eased to no more than limits on crowd sizes at football matches once there was no community spread – many matches had fewer spectators than permitted. Restriction back again because three infected clowns from NSW came into the State under false pretenses. But roaming spreaders all but eliminated again – took 9 days despite two super spreading events.

      After Covid in 2020, house prices in Victoria set new records in 2021. Unemployment rate in Australia back under 5% in 2021 – before NSW lockdown-lite. Share market reached all-time record in 2021. Supermarkets overflowing with the best produce in the world. Quality wine at record low prices – not good for that industry though. Roads as jammed as ever. More caravans moving about than I have ever seen.

      Anyone who thinks that Covid is not dangerous is living in a highly sheltered bubble. Excess deaths in UK for 2020 over 5-year average some 75k. Excess deaths in USA in 2020 over average, 572k. Without any controls, deaths would have likely surpassed the 1% forecast. USA recorded a death rate of 1.8% assessed cases to deaths. Sweden recorded a death rate of 1.3%. Global average 2.1%. It is reasonable to expect not everyone with Covid became a recorded case but there is no doubt many Covid related deaths were not reported as such; locations in Africa, India and Brazil with mass graves..

      More than 70% of Victorians support the short sharp lockdowns and border closures. Dan Andrews, despite the mismanagement of quarantine in 2020, is still polling 20% above the opposition. Western Australia had the most effective border controls and no roaming Covid spreaders during 2020; Mark McGowan’s government returned in 2021 with massive majority. The opposition leader lost his seat.

      Contracts for a new purpose-built quarantine centre near Melbourne Airport are in progress. It will have 500 rooms functional by the end of 2021 with eventual capacity of 1000 rooms. So that will permit 70 overseas travellers per day from Covid infected locations. I expect other Australian States to offer locations for similar stations. Quarantine and border control is nothing new to Australia. I can still remember the air crew on international flights walking through the cabins spraying pesticides before the doors were opened. Still very tight control on bringing plant and animal matter into Australia and even across some borders. Overseas travel into Australia will get more expensive and time consuming.

      Your views are way outside the majority view as polls demonstrate. That is fine but you only have one vote. If you want to have more influence then get elected or join their ABC.

      I would love to be on an airplane to the UK to visit my new grandson or have them coming back to Australia but I get to make him smile when we meet over the phone each week using a communication network that is near zero cost thanks to modern communication technology.

      It appears overseas travel to and from Australia could be much more time consuming than in the past for a long time to come. The Brisbane Olympics could present a challenge if Covid remains a risk.

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        Annie

        ‘More than 70% of Victorians supported a short sharp lockdown’. They didn’t ask country Victorians like me. Opinions from family and friends in other parts of Vic are unprintable.

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          Annie

          BTW, I have a 99-year-old frail mother, several siblings, offspring, grandson and a yet-to-be-seen great-grandson nearly a year old overseas.

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        Annie

        Who took those polls, how were the questions framed, who did they ask?

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          l’d like to know that as well Annie
          these polls are not what l am hearing or seeing in Victoria
          there is a lot of anti lockdown Dandemic hate out there

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        Kalm Keith

        Thank you for your continued support and open mindedness.
        Much appreciated.
        As always.

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      • #
        greggg

        ‘USA recorded a death rate of 1.8% assessed cases to deaths. Sweden recorded a death rate of 1.3%.’
        Those are deaths with covid, not excess deaths from covid. They are also based on positive test results – antibody testing has shown actual numbers of infected are higher. A lot of people who are asymptomatic don’t get tested, and some who are symptomatic choose not to be tested. Those death rate numbers have been used for scaremongering. The real wuflu death rates are a fraction of those.

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    Analitik

    Why is there no mention that statistics show that the Delta variant is far less likely to cause hospitalizations than earlier variants?

    It’s time for kids to treat it like chickenpox and get safe, natural immunity yet Greg Hunt had just approved 9-12 year olds to be vaccinated. WTH are we coming to.

    “The Science” isn’t the science that I was brought up with

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      Analytic. I would like hospitalization data.

      Latest Medcram video from ICU doctor suggests hospitalizations are worse for Delta in unvaxed people. I thought they were better, but given the effect Delta has on hospitals in most countries, it appears not.

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        Analitik

        It depends which country you look at. The UK figures suggests that it has attenuated significantly. Absolute hospitalizations may have risen but you need to compare that with case counts.

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          I believe the UK figures represent the recent vax effect. And some natural survivor immunity too.

          I’ve not seen figures in the unvaxed.

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          tonyb

          analitik

          I think there are several factors at work here in the UK;

          The first being that many of the most vulnerable have already died and others are better at protecting themselves

          The second being that the vaccine is pretty effective

          The third is that I do get the impression that although more infectious the delta variant is less deadly

          The next being that there is an enormous of testing and many ‘cases’ don’t even know they have the virus as it picks up ‘old’ virus and seems to be ultra sensitive.

          The last factor is that our excess deaths remain below the 10 year average. I think the official definition of ‘pandemic’ does not apply to something that is not in the top 20 of causes of death, assuming of course the patient died OF covid and not WITH covid in the first place.

          I know three people who supposedly died OF covid but all died WITH Covid and it was strokes and a fall that was the real cause of death

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    Travis T. Jones

    18 months into COVID and the situation is quickly turning into a “choose your own narrative adventure” for the dumb and data deniers.

    The rest of us know the Bat Lady’s virus is gonna virus.

    1. Australia/NZ – Our Zero COVID heroes!

    Four lockdowns down and an unlimited number to go!

    Now that we know vaccine effectiveness is quite short lived 75% at best, what was all this for?

    When does that question get asked?
    And how angry are those populations going to be?
    They bought a bunch of that AstraZeneca , which is about as effective at killing the Rona as voodoo!

    2. There is clearly no point to a vaccine passport for a 75% effective tax with a 3-6 month efficiency.

    How does Morrison, et al shift the narrative to avoid that fact which is being documented as we speak?

    3. Team Apocalypse’s graven idols (masks & vax) are causing a major rift.

    If you are pro-mask for the vaccinated, you are anti-vaxx.
    If you are anti-mask you are turning your back on public health and most probably voted or supported President Trump.

    It’s like watching Star Trek and Star Wars fans argue … sad, but funny.

    Where and how does this land?

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      Serp

      Eighteen months and counting with as yet no talk of green shoots under the light at the end of the tunnel; as to where and how, well indications are that we may have to wait for the deity to return to earth and do a bit of smiting.

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    PeterS

    Lock down suicides exploding and the MSM and politicians couldn’t give a damn. They have blood on their hands.

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      Analitik

      The ABC are starting to admit it’s an issue. Quite surprising as they previously stated that Australian mental health was surprisingly good over the past year

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-25/one-in-10-victorians-considered-suicide-in-2020-research-finds/100242310

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        PeterS

        Too little too late. There is no doubt there have been many suicides as a direct result of the scaremongering and lock-downs. Let’s see if the truth comes out and they finally admit they and the politicians who fund them have made a major blunder. Of course they won’t because that would be admitting liability resulting in massive numbers and amounts of suing and possibly criminal charges being slapped on them. So, they will need to continue with the scam at all human costs to the end when they have taken away all our freedoms so we can no longer complain. I do hope the people wake up before then and react appropriately but not sure they will.

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          Long lockdowns are horrible. Thats why we want short hard successful ones. The harder the shorter.

          Ultimately what we really want are effective borders which would give us Zero lockdowns.

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            Analitik

            The lockdowns were imposed to “flatten the curve” so hospitals wouldn’t be overloaded. Somewhere along the line, things switched to elimination which is futile if international travel is allowed to contribute.

            I was previously in favour of minimizing spread of COVID-19 due to the early reports from China and New York and thought Sweden would prove to be a horror story. I was wrong and the swedish approach (quarantine the vulnerable, moderate social distancing) was correct, especially now that we are being hit with the Delta variant which is far more infectious but notably attenuated.

            Please look at the rates of hospitalizations vs cases, Jo, rather than just the rising numbers. I changed my mind because the data shows I was incorrect. Sweden has had 7 days in a row with zero deaths and is almost fully open.

            I took a view based on what I saw from early data. I was wrong and admit it.

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              True, elimination is futile with open borders but the workers and voters seem to prefer closing the borders and living life without worrying (much) about the virus. I can see their point.

              Given that we are dealing with a likely bioweapon, buying time and playing it safe has a lot of appeal. Will Covid have long term repercussions on cancer, dementia, kidney health or heart disease? Maybe, maybe not, but the bioweapon potentially could still come back to bite. Even asymptomatic people get some lung damage. It was reckless to let it run.

              As for Sweden. 50% of Swedes live alone and food is fortified with Vit D. They should have had the best stats in the world. But their death rate was 40 times higher than ours (so far) on a per capita basis.

              At one point they refused to let 80 year olds into the ICU at all and left them with nothing but morphine. Thats one way to keep the hospitals from overcrowding.

              People who didn’t like their approach were silenced in Sweden. (And people who liked Sweden were silenced here, and I deplore that too).

              If you look at their movement data they reduced a lot of mobility anyway. It was admirable that it was more voluntary, but not good that thousands died. Who knows what the rate of long covid disability is or vax side effects?

              I prefer the WA and NZ approach. And we’re in no rush to vaccinate. What a luxury. We can watch the experiment around the rest of the world and wait and pray a better solution/virus or vaccine comes. We’ll at least know more.

              Thanks to the Brits for being the big experiment.

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            tonyb

            Jo

            In a bloodless coup you are now Queen of Australia with the absolute powers of Queen Elizabeth the 1st.

            So, what measurers would you take to ensure the lockdowns are successful and the virus is eliminated?.

            How long? What restrictions on movements? What permits needed? What police actions? What fines? What do you do with protestors?

            Would this all have uncomfortable similarities to the Tower of London but with palm trees and larger windows?

            Your subjects await your instructions, but do remember what happened to Charles the First, as your subjects might not like your proposals

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      Kalm Keith

      It’s very hard to find current figures.

      Wonder why that is?

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    William Astley

    Honest, unaltered data quantifies risk or fear. Is there any evidence that the covid vaccines are dangerous? If there is that is a big deal.

    A vaccine should not cause death or any other serious side effect in healthy people. People should be informed about any vaccine side effects. The problem is the covid vaccine Astrazeneca, is known to causes vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT) (blood clots) in 1 out of 100,000 vaccinations and some people have died from Astrazeneca VITT. I have not seen any evidence that the RNA vaccines can cause VITT or have caused VITT which makes sense as the RNA vaccines have a level of optimizing that is not possible with the old technology.

    Based on the Canadian data and instant reporting of any serious vaccine side effect (like deaths) to the Canadian press, the Astrazeneca vaccine is the only covid vaccine that has caused deaths (two) in Canada and VITT. Canada has no vaccine production. Those reporting Canadian covid vaccine statistics have no financial motive and no opportunity to hide or change data (like deaths) without getting caught/fired/charged, because of whistleblower legislation.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-astrazeneca-vaccine-death-1.6014284

    https://globalnews.ca/news/7835081/alberta-woman-death-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine/

    Family confirmed to Global News that the woman who died was 52-year-old Lisa Stonehouse.
    “She was my rock,” Lisa’s 19-year-old daughter Jordan told Global News.

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      PeterS

      Given the anecdotal evidence of the reported deaths due to the vaccines, it would be negligent to the point of being a serious crime not to investigate such reports to determine how accurate they are. I would go further to say that the current practice by our governments to coerce us to be vaccinated is potentially legalised murder. They have been warned.

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      RickWill

      Moderna has been associated with some skin irritations. I learnt this after my son had his first ever bout of shingles after Moderna jab. Same thing after the second jab but he had pills that controlled the outbreak – so far.

      This link gives more detail on side effects:
      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/07/covid-vaccine-side-effects-study-skin-reactions-not-dangerous-coronavirus/7109380002/

      “People can get full-body rashes, and that can be surprising and a little scary, but these patients did extremely well, recovered and were able to go back and get their second dose,” said Freeman, director of global health dermatology at Massachusetts General Hospital.

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    • #

      Saying there is no evidence when we are not sure they are collecting the evidence doesn’t prove much at all, sadly.

      If they were serious and honest they would SMS or phone up all vaccinees and get symptom reports and they would report deaths in the month following vac and compare with deaths in a similar unvacced cohort simultaneously.

      Are your odds of dying greater in the month after vaccines? Who knows? Where is that data?

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    Penguinite

    And this differs from the flu, how?

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      PeterS

      The contrast is increasing dramatically between one side saying the C-19 vaccines are safe and we must all be vaccinated, and the other side is saying there are far more deaths due to the vaccines than the virus itself. As per usual the truth is very likely somewhere in between, but where? I wish there was truth in reporting the causes of the deaths. At the moment they are not to be trusted as we have seen people recorded as dying from the virus when in fact they died from other causes. At some stage the BS from both extremes has to stop before we end up with a rise in civil violence that could get out of control.

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        Penguinite, deaths are higher, and hospitalization rates are ten times higher in Covid, and long term post illness periods are higher as well.

        Covid is a vascular disease as well as a respiratory one. Flu is not.
        Covid has nasty bioweapon surprises that the flu doesn’t. IT has an unknown long term effect.

        Flu R0 = 1.4. Covid R0 = 4 – 6 now.

        Flu incubation period is 2 days. Covid was 5 days, but may have sped up.

        The Chinese are not letting Covid spread. They know what’s in this virus. Think about that.

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        Kalm Keith

        No agro or civil disobedience at today’s rallies in NovoCastria.

        https://joannenova.com.au/2021/07/israel-data-vaccines-only-16-effective-after-6-months-but-still-prevent-86-hospitalization/#comment-2446248

        And despite the poor advertising there were 300 in total.

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          MP

          Cairns we had between 5 and 6 hundred, has been about 200 at the other protests, people are starting to see.

          Had one young young fella pull up beside me saying I was anti-vax, explained my view that I was anti Tyranny but pro freedom of choice. Walked him through the ABS stats on his phone.
          He joined the march, may not of changed his view entirely, but he said “see you at the next” 🙂

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    FREDRICK PEGLER

    If only the best antiviral wasn’t so damn cheap and profitless.
    The main point of pushing vaccines so the politicians/media can get out of the corner they’ve painted themselves into.
    Once they can get numbers to ‘whatever’ level they’ll declare – ‘problem solved’ and stop reporting cases.

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    • #

      Yes. It’s bad. I support all protests against mandatory vax.

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      V.

      inconsistent with 2.1.3 of the Australian immunization handbook.

      the provisions of the Australian immunization handbook are guidelines made under a Cth law.

      if guidelines are ‘laws’ for the purposes of s109 of the Australian constitution (and i believe they are), then that law is unconstitutional.

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      Serp

      Augusto Zimmerman claims two bits of the Australian constitution prohibit this application of force. Senior counsel expert in constitutional law will not necessarily concur: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/the-law/2021/07/constitutionally-inoculated-to-resist-coercion/

      It’s as well to have 309829 signatures on a petition against mandatory covid-19 vaccination https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN2753 say I.

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        V.

        Augusto Zimmerman claims two bits of the Australian constitution prohibit this application of force

        Zimmerman:

        The idea that constitutional provisions protect individual rights plays a fundamental role in our understanding of these express limitations and, indeed, our understanding of the implied constitutional limitations derived from them. In this context, the “no conscription” requirement to be found in that provision amounts to an explicit constitutional limitation. It is an implied constitutional right of the individual so that such prohibition is not directed only to the federal government but it must also be extended to the exercise of legislative power by the Australian states.

        s51 enumerates various matters in respect of which the commonwealth (cth) parliament can make law.

        s51.xxiiia is interesting in that it is both permissive (giving the cth legislature a power to do something) and restrictive (prohibiting civil conscription).

        however, the mere fact that the cth is prohibited from the exercise of some power does not limit the states exercising the same power.

        it seems to boil down to whether you read s51.xxxxxia as (1) a limitation on the law making power of the cth only; or (2) it can be given a reading wide enough to make it an implied constitutional right (and a broad interpretation is mandated in both general practitioners society v commonwealth and wong v cth).

        however, i can see no express statement of (2) in wong v cth.

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        TIP

        https://odysee.com/@OzFlor:7/Ll:6

        Darren Dixon regards 51.23a

        feedback appreciated…..

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          V.

          s51 only enumerates various matters in respect of which the commonwealth (cth) parliament can make law.

          states can enact laws on topics enumerated in s51, but federal law prevails if there is a conflict (const s109).

          per video he seems to be saying that the prohibition on civil conscription in the constitution acts as a limit on state power because of s109. ie a state law is inconsistent with 51.xxiiia.

          prima facie i wouldn’t read it that way because s51 only gives the federal legislature power to make laws, so conflict between federal and state law only arises if here is a conflict between a law made under s51 and a state law (like eg immunisation handbook if that is a ‘law’ for the purpose of s109).

          this seems to be affirmed by british medical association case (1949) where Latham CJ said that State and Territory Parliaments have the power to enact legislation controlling registration of medical practitioners, and imposing conditions for practice of medicine (including conscription of medical personnel) and that does not infringe the Commonwealth Constitution. [see here:http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MelbULawRw/1999/14.html#fn31%5D

          two caveats:(1) i’m not that familiar with this area; (2) there probably is an argument for an implied right that could be made (i’m just yet to be pointed to any case where that has been explicitly asserted as law).

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      PeterS

      I’m actually shocked to hear that even suggested. If that was ever legislated then one would hope the federal police would be called upon to arrest the people responsible without hesitation. Whether such an action would be undertaken is unlikely given how spineless our PM Morrison is.

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      • #
        V.

        that is to prevent a serious public health risk.

        i think being vaxxed with a leaky vaccine would not fall within the scope of that section, as it would not alleviate the public health risk.

        but, yes, it is a reprehensible overreach supposedly elected representatives

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      MP

      Go to the source.

      Start at 161. Authorised officer may be given assistance, and may use force (

      https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/prod/filestore.nsf/FileURL/mrdoc_42242.pdf/$FILE/Public%20Health%20Act%202016%20-%20%5B00-i0-03%5D.pdf?OpenElement

      4. This instrument of authorisation is additional to the Instrument of Authorisation –
      Authorisation To Supply Or Administer A Poison [SARS-COV-2 (COV/D-19)
      VACCINE] (No. 1) 2021.

      https://www.wa.gov.au/government/publications/public-health-act-2016-wa-instrument-of-authorisation-authorisation-supply-or-administer-poison-sars-cov-2-covid-19-vaccine-australian-defence-force-no2-2021

      20

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    • #
      Serp

      No penalty for a covid outbreak among vaccinated players is it? These knuckleheads running the NFL need to go back and redraft their sanctions.

      10

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      It will be interesting to see if the lock-downs will bring out the best or the worst of us. It’s one great experiment that’s for sure. For evil to win it is required of us to submit and comply, not our support nor our reluctance to get involved. So, a refusal to comply, whatever the cost, is the moral imperative. Then again many people don’t believe in morals so therein lies the root cause of the problem. Let’s wait and see how many have good morals and how many don’t.

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      wokebuster

      The faulty test that turned the ‘pandemic’ into the casedemic is quietly retired. I wonder if this is in response to the fact that the main argument of Reiner Fullmich’s coming class actions is the inaccuracy of the PCR test and that the mess we are in now largely flows from that.

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      Annie

      Well, well, well! Very interesting.

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      • #

        Does it mean anything? They might just have a new PCR test because the Delta variant is different and has more false negatives.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Or the tests are inaccurate to the point they give too many false positives as some are claiming. Given only a small percentage of the population are tested and a few died allegedly due to the virus but some are now claiming one at least might have been due to the vaccine, how come we are not seeing hundreds of other deaths allegedly due to the virus or the vaccine across the whole population? Perhaps the deaths are caused by the tests themselves? Sounds too far fetched yet some are also claiming that as well. Too much we don’t know about all this. We are all just playing the speculation game. Our political “masters” though are not only playing that game they are also playing another very sinister game and locking us down “for our own safety” while suicides are up alarmingly. That’s the real worry.

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          • #

            It’s a democracy. Most of the population want the lockdowns to be faster and stronger and they want to live free from the virus (and get out of lockdowns). Look at polls and recent elections.

            People like being healthy, and mostly like their old folks. They probably like lower immigration and higher wages too. It’s not that hard to understand.

            No one likes lockdowns and its a damn shame Gladys isn’t doing a good job.

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          RossP

          If that was the case Jo why aren’t they pushing the new test now and not waiting until December?

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    Forrest Gardener

    Two somewhat related questions. First does the risk of blood clots differ between the Pfizer injection and the Astrazenica injection. Second are there meaningful statistics on blood clotting effects varying by age or comorbidities?

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    clarence.t

    Alan Jones hammers the NSW Premier

    https://youtu.be/4mvNBh53_d4

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      PeterS

      They are digging bigger and bigger holes for themselves and exposing themselves as truly heartless. The question though is how much longer will the public put up with this deliberate scaremongering by despot politicians and health “experts” who sit in the irony towers fattening themselves on their full salaries paid by us while the rest of us are being pushed closer and closer the the edge of the cliff. This is one big test of how awake people are and how much pain they are willing to take before the last straw breaks the camel’s back. As someone commented, this is not a pandemic, it’s social engineering. I would add, if all this is left to continue it will eventually morph into a fascist state.

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    Harpo

    Just spoke to a friend in Sydney. He’d just asked his daughter, also locked down in Sydney, what she does to pass the time. “Oh, I just smoke dope all day.”
    I am certain that the overwrought reaction to the virus will create tremendous long term damage amongst large numbers of psychologically vulnerable people.

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      PeterS

      The despot leaders don’t give a damn. They don’t even flinch at the fact there are many suicides as a result of the lock-downs, direct and indirect. All they care about is they must drop the cases to zero. It doesn’t matter that it will led to many suicides in the process.

      Then is the the risk of the long term damage caused by the vaccines themselves. That is unknown for now but in the coming months/years we shall see if that risk is sufficient to warrant our leaders to be charged with crimes against humanity. I can’t wait to find out.

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  • #
    V.

    ‘the most potent virus we’ve had probably, on earth’
    -Brad Hazard, NSW Health Minister

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    • #
      V.

      hottest year evah
      most secure election evah
      most potent virus evah

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      • #

        V. Yeah. OK. Define “potent”? It’s not the most deadly or the most infectious, but it probably has caused the most damage, but mainly because global population is so large, and governments have been so arrogantly stupid aiming for “herd immunity” to a disease that may or may not induce long term immunity.

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          V.

          unvaccinated covid survival rates per cdc:

          0-19: 99.997%
          20-49: 99.98%
          50-69: 99.5%
          70+: 94.6%+

          deaths: 4,160,306 people have died so far from the coronavirus COVID-19 outbreak as of July 24, 2021, 05:31 GMT.

          black plague: “The Black Death was a bubonic plague pandemic occurring in Afro-Eurasia from 1346 to 1353. It is the most fatal pandemic recorded in human history, causing the death of 75–200 million people in Eurasia and North Africa, peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351.”

          i guess there is an analogue: there was no treatment for the black plague and governments like to pretend there is no treatment for covid 19.

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            V.

            or how about:

            1918 Influenza

            An estimated one third of the world’s population (or ≈500 million persons) were infected and had clinically apparent illnesses (1,2) during the 1918–1919 influenza pandemic. The disease was exceptionally severe. Case-fatality rates were >2.5%, compared to <0.1% in other influenza pandemics (3,4). Total deaths were estimated at ≈50 million (5–7) and were arguably as high as 100 million (7).

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/

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            Analitik

            Yes and 25 teenagers have died in the UK with 13 of them having 2 or more severe underlying health issues, 6 having one and 6 being deemed healthy. The mortality rate at the lower end is even more miniscule when underlying health is taken into account

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          PeterS

          Yes if one defines “potent” to mean having great power, influence, or effect then yes the C-19 pandemic could be considered as one of the worst in history given the amount of money lost, businesses destroyed, job losses, etc. As for deaths, well it hardly reaches the level of many other diseases and sicknesses. However, he did say “most potent virus” so the implication is not about the overall impact but the number of deaths attributed to the virus. In that case it is certainly no where near the top of the list. Brad Hazard clearly told a fib.

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            V.

            TGA has apparently approved Pfizer coronavirus vaxx for children as young as 12.

            This despite their ‘information sheet’ which discusses phase 1, phase 2 and phase 3 trials:

            Phase 1 trials: The new vaccine is given to a small number (25–50) of healthy adults with the primary aim of assessing safety.

            Phase 2 trials: If the new vaccine is found to be safe in Phase 1, it is then given to hundreds of people to determine: how effectively it stimulates immune responses; how much or how many doses need to be given in order to protect against the target disease; and whether there are any side effects.

            Phase 3 trials: If the vaccine is found to be effective and safe, it is then given to many thousands of people to test whether it protects large populations from the target disease and check if there are any uncommon or serious side effects. Every vaccine given to Australian children must pass all of these phases before it is registered for use by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA).

            [emphasis added]

            https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020/10/how-are-vaccines-shown-to-be-safe-fact-sheet.pdf

            the leaky coronavirus vaxx has not left phase 2.

            Children do not have the capacity to consent to medical experimentation (imagine having to say that only 75 years after the nuremberg trials).

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      PeterS

      I saw that on video. How can he say that without having a guilty conscious given it’s an obvious untruth. Perhaps he sold his soul to the dev1l.

      BTW, if anyone wants to have a peek behind the curtain of the show, the following video is very revealing.

      Dr. David Martin Just Ended Covid, Fauci, DOJ And Politicians by Stew Peters Show

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    Kalm Keith

    Have just come back from a Freedom rally at BB in NovoCastria.

    Maybe 80 to 100 people.

    When that shut down went over to another on at NB and they had at least 200.

    Given the very little info these were good numbers to start with.

    People are concerned about the social control aspects of the current CV19 situation.

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    Delory

    Jo, do you have a link/reference to the source data/study used for the vaccine effectiveness plot in this topic?

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    angech

    Jo
    “It’s too early in this pandemic to push vaccines when new mutations are arriving rapidly. The disease will probably settle into something less deadly through natural mutation in something like 3 – 5 years. (As Spanish Flu did). BUT if we rely solely on leaky vaccines we are creating a selective pressure for variations that specifically neutralize our vaccines.”

    While I appreciate your concerns and value free choice and free speech I still like to keep facts factual, on either side of the debates.

    Rud Istvan did a couple of excellent articles on the corona virus on WUWT nearly 2 years ago.
    The fact is that viral mutations are an unavoidable fact in any reproductive process.
    Every cell that releases a million copies of the virus [or a lot more] will perforce release several mutations among the normal copies.

    This happens whether you are using anti-virals, vaccines or just winging it.
    Naturally.
    The selective pressure, despite your Marek virus example, is not influenced by the use or non use of antiviral measures.
    It is an inbuilt outcome of viral reproduction.
    If something leaks as a result of an inefficient stopping mechanism then it is just being given a longer time to breed until a less lethal [usually] or a more lethal variant develops and happens to spread better.
    You can try to scare people to your point of view just as Andrews et al try to scare people the other way.
    The greater good argument is always persuasive and pervasive.

    The disease will probably settle into something less deadly through natural mutation” -correct.
    If it is not wiped out it may mutate to a more severe form over time -correct.
    This is not a reason not to use vaccines if they do help people more than they hurt.
    The only good reason for vaccination.
    Self explanatory, self sufficient and not an argument against people’s choice not to vaccinate.

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    • #
      Analitik

      If something leaks as a result of an inefficient stopping mechanism then it is just being given a longer time to breed until a less lethal [usually] or a more lethal variant develops and happens to spread better.

      This is incorrect in the case of almost all the CoViD-19 vaccines.

      Letting immune systems cope with a viral infection, whether natively or supported by anti-virals, will result in a Darwinian selection process where variants that are less debilitating and with comparable or higher transmissibility will dominate since
      1. recovery from any of the variants will provide high immunity for all variants
      2. recovery is more likely with a less debilitating variant

      But most of the current CoViD-19 vaccines are only spike protein vaccines that only produce a specific anti-body response rather than providing the immune system with all the characteristics of the virus to learn to detect and fight. Given this, mutations are selected purely on the spike proteins – selection is no longer based on the health of the host but the spike protein innoculated against. This narrow selection path makes for inherently leaky vaccines.

      Leaky vaccines are problematic because they allow for mutations and eventually, one will occur that is both more deadly and highly resistant to the anti-bodies. In the case of the spike protein vaccines, a high mortality mutuation that is not on the spike protein can develop and become dominant if the lethality takes longer to express than the period needed for the anti-bodies to kill the infection. Then the unvaccinated population faces a killer outbreak.

      The odds are overwhelmingly against this for natural (recovered) immunity or a non-leaky virus.

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      • #

        Angech, analitik is right.

        You say

        “The selective pressure, despite your Marek virus example, is not influenced by the use or non use of antiviral measures.
        It is an inbuilt outcome of viral reproduction.”

        This is wrong. Mutation is random but the selection pressure is very different in a normal infection compared to one where leaky vaccines are almost the sole defence.

        The survivor viruses from vaccinated people will by definition be deadlier to the unvaxed because they will already be able to get around our first immune response. That means they come pre loaded with a head start.

        In viral warfare, the early hours matter. Exponential growth occurs in both the virus and our immune system but if the virus gets a few extra hours that can be the difference between life and death.

        PS: Antivirals will also limit the reproduction of viruses — thus reducing the rate of mutation. AND if the antivirals eliminate the virus, then there is no “leak”. That’s what we want.

        PPS: look up “immune escape”. It was only accepted in 2015. It’s the process where leaky vaccines generate / select for nasty viruses.

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    angech

    What I would like to discuss but there is not enough information is the long term effectiveness of vaccines.
    What everyone knows but forgets is that the immune response with antibodies goes into a hibernation when not used
    which leads to a natural drop off of detectable antibodies but not a drop off in immunity.

    This is often misleadingly construed by journalists, and to their shame,
    a lot of commentary scientists as a drop of or disappearance of immunity.

    I am not up to speed on your comment about natural infection being better than vaccination.
    It is one of those sounds good so must be true things [and of course is probably true].
    Nonetheless as you are aware, most antiviral vaccines that we use are extremely good and long lasting for the rest of our lives.
    Some of them also produce levels of antibody that can be detected in most people forever .
    Rubella would be a good example.

    Hence with your article on the Israeli experience I would appreciate a little more data.
    My understanding is that the current batch of vaccines we are using do not give an immediate wide ranging antibody development response
    to a range of antibodies.
    Unlike say the more traditional Sinovax.
    I may be wrong.
    If right it means that there is only a partial but still helpful antiviral response with a less severe illness.

    I do have grave concerns about longterm effects but to date in UK this is not showing up.
    I hope there are no longterm auto antibodies causing clotting [AZ] but on the evidence to date [very short term] this is only a minor possibility.

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      PeterS

      You say you are concerned about the long term effects but the UK data is so far not showing up any concerns. How do you know the data is reliable? There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence that the vaccines are causing severe illness and deaths in some of the victims. There is so much we don’t know so we are all just speculating at best. I wish there was a way to get to the bottom of all this, and perhaps in time we will but it might take another year or so. In the meantime there is no way I will be taking an experimental vaccine that hasn’t even been FDA approved. The longer term effects are even more questionable. I’m not an antivaxxer as I have taken other vaccines during my lifetime.

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      greggg

      The covid vaccines may be more like the flu vaccine which does not last long at all.

      ‘Recently published studies highlight the growing evidence for waning immunity within a single influenza season among vaccinated individuals.’
      ‘The evidence in the single year/single strain studies pointed to a complete loss in VE (vaccine effectiveness) within a single season as early as 90 days after vaccination to as late as 160 days after vaccination.’
      ‘Ferdinands et al published a study in December 2016 in Clinical Infectious Diseases that examined VE over the 4 flu seasons from 2011 to 2015. The authors found a rate of decline of VE of 6%–11% per month after vaccination for influenza type B and influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 subtype and a rate of 7% for the H3N2 subtype. VE reaches 0 in as few as 5 months after vaccination for H3N2 and influenza type B.’

      https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/68/7/1235/5086704?

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    • #

      The current vaccines are mostly all focused on the spike, so don’t generate wide rangin antibodies.

      But another problem is that they generate antibodies that circulate in blood but not on mucosal surfaces.

      Without the IgA type antibodies on our nose and mouth, the virus gets a foothold too easily. That’s what stops infection. The antibodies in blood help later, but the virus is off and running and shedding and spreading.

      Basically, we are at a very immature stage of vaccine design. We dont’ know what we are doing, and the virus keeps changing as well.

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    PeterPetrum

    I posted this in the Australian and it was rejected. Who are the comments editors?

    There are now a plethora of research papers from epidemiologists in several countries showing that invermectin and hydroxychloroquin, used as a prophylaxis or early treatment, can dramatically reduce the symptoms and damage from this virus. Both have long term histories of use and safety records. Nigeria has been using both for the treatment of endemic diseases in their country, such as river blindness, and, wonders, their death rates from Covid infections are a very small fraction of those in most western countries.

    Why can we not approve their use here?

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      Serp

      Sure one expects knuckleheadedness from the NRL but not from the Australian; we’re condemned to live out Cassandra’s daily grind.

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      • #

        Keep asking Peter. Thankyou. You are doing the right thing.

        IT is a scandal beyond nearly all others. The costs of lockdowns and the deaths of the sick.

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      Doc

      Peter, I’ve had the same problem. Nobody will allow discussion of antiviral therapies, their successes or failures and there seems to be no basis given anywhere for that blackout except for the official mantra: ‘They don’t work!’

      This blackout and refusal to consider these therapies is becoming more and more confusing – and scary – especially at a time questions are being raised as to the effectiveness of the vaccines after just a few months and the only answer seems to be administration of increased number and frequency of those same vaccines.

      One has to ask those providing this cover for that mantra: Do they think they are impervious to the implications of failing vaccinations in the presence of a continually mutating virus that having become increasingly infectious, just has to mutate to a more lethal form? Do they think their own families are also impervious to whatever the virus does?

      Our world dithers with tunnel vision over vaccines, with no interest in developing/using new and better antiviral agents while making the most of those currently available that seem to have selective longitude and latitude preferences to where they will act. That itself’s a very good topic for researchers to research!

      This business of governments killing all ‘misinformation’ (uncomfortable questions that defy their proclammations)that they want suppressed is increasing from all political persuasions ie no matter where one looks now, our freedoms are being sliced away. We are suffering from modernity where we elect people that have rarely worked outside Party and Union structures, have little connection with people in general, have walked over others to get their positions and are unused to having to explain their decisions.

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    mwhite

    https://dailysceptic.org/2021/07/23/are-the-vaccines-reducing-hospitalisations/

    “As we move into autumn and cases rise, it seems possible that the vaccines may fail spectacularly. What happens next? A rational society would turn on the public health buffoons and the greedy pharmaceutical companies. A rational society would take seriously the grim statistics on vaccine fatalities being reported to the Government’s Yellow Card system.”

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    • #
      PeterS

      We will know soon enough. This massive experiment will also reveal more data about the effects of the vaccines, provided they release the real data. We might have to rely on anecdotal evidence to spot check the “official” data. I don’t trust them, just as I don’t trust the temperature data say BOM and NASA issue. We know the temperature data is manipulated and distorted to enhance the CAGW effect.

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      • #

        Even the israelis are watching the UK right now.

        But we may not know “soon”. The situation will keep evolving. Unfortunately.

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        • #
          mwhite

          Butt plug to be made mandatory in Australia???????
          https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/23/covid-could-spread-flatulence-say-ministers/

          “The official advice is to open a window to increase ventilation and slow the spread of Covid, but now there could be an added incentive – the virus may also be spread by flatulence.

          Ministers have privately pointed to evidence that Covid could be spread by people breaking wind in confined spaces such as lavatories. One said they had read “credible-looking stuff on it” from other countries, although government scientists are yet to produce a paper on the matter.

          The source said there had been evidence of a “genomical-linked tracing connection between two individuals from a [lavatory] cubicle in Australia.”

          There were also “well-documented cases of diseases spreading through waste pipes during lockdowns in Hong Kong when the U-bend had dried out”.”

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    nb

    At https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/07/24/bill-muehlenberg-health-fascism-is-spiralling-out-of-control/
    ‘roman says: July 24, 2021 at 4:20 pm
    Queensland’s Premier’s father, Henry Palaszczuk, was appointed Chairman of the Gene Technology Alliance Foundation (GTA), a genetic sequencing and storage company — based in China —.
    See this and this.
    https://tottnews.com/2021/01/21/qld-premier-father-genetic-company/
    https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/19/09/ab14508667/the-grand-opening-of-gta-gene-data-storage-and-application-summit-forum-heralds-a-promising-futur
    Why have we not heard of this before? And what in the fuck did he do exactly to be offered that position? (He has no training in science.)
    BTW his wikipedia page doesn’t mention it, because obfuscation is what you do when operating a conspiracy.’

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    V.

    “After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.”

    https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

    how convenient.

    use pcr tests at 40-45 cycles which are not fit for purpose and could detect ‘covid’ a banana.

    then quietly withdraw them after they have been used to justify draconian lockdown measures.

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    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    The potential longer term side effects of NEW mRNA ‘vaccines’ that have not been tested on animals and rushed to market to make $ Billions are horrific. It may take years before the full extent of the biggest medical disaster in history is known.

    Would Big Pharma companies care? No – they have been given full indemnity from any deaths or injuries caused by their EXPERIMENTAL ‘vaccines” where you are the Lab Rat.

    Politics and medicine are a dangerous mix.

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    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    The 1918 “Spanish Flu” pandemic was caused by the H1N1 influenza virus and came to an end in 1920. However, Influenza vaccines were not developed until 1938.

    Many deaths were from excessive doses of Asprin developed in 1899, just as many deaths today are from EXPERIMENTAL ‘vaccines’ that have not even been tested on animals.

    A century later the H1N1 virus is still in global circulation although in a less virulent form.

    Pandemics end when the virus runs out of victims most at risk. Vaccines are not required, especially those that do not kill the virus.

    The SARS-CoV-2 virus will always be with us.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/01/1918-flu-pandemic-end/

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    Doc

    I wonder how many workers and scientists that are employed by these pharmaceutical companies have rolled up their sleeves to take ‘the jab’! ie, the vaccine produced and in action on the public? Now that could be VERY revealing on many levels.

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    Oxfo

    It is also quite amusing the number of conservative politicians who, when asked if they have had the jab, refuse to answer. When self-preservation runs against the political narrative it is predictable that people choose to be among the 86% who avoided serious illness.

    One thing we know for sure is that the anti-vax crowd will diminish over time; many will choose to protect their lives and get vaccinated in the face of the Delta variant, and among those who don’t…

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  • #
    Philip

    Yes it is a dumb virus. But the people in charge are a bit dumber. Who wins in such a contest?

    Thank goodness for Jo and her priceless information which is SO hard to find otherwise.

    Sincerely, thank you.

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    CHRIS

    God help us all if there is a global outbreak of the PLAGUE. Hazzard’s view of COVID-19 is an absolute joke. Covid kills barely 1% of the global population. A nasty variant of the Bubonic Plague would kill up to 50% (regardless of any vaccinations). Perspective, please!!!

    10