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China has nothing to hide — but don’t investigate Coronavirus or 1 billion people will unfriend you Australia

To show what a good global citizen it is, the CCP in China could have welcomed a multinational independent investigation into the origins of the Flu from the Fish markets (or was that the Bat-Lab?)

Instead, the Chinese Ambassador of the CCP threatens to throw its (huge) weight around:

In reported comments, Mr Cheng described the Morrison government’s proposal for an inquiry as “dangerous” and accused Canberra of pandering to US instructions. He said Chinese people were upset with Australia and if the trend continued they could decide not to come as tourists or students, and not eat Australian beef or drink Australian wine.

Fortunately the Australian Government was not impressed:

[Australian Foreign Minister] Senator Payne doubled down on her call for an independent inquiry into the pandemic’s outbreak, saying it had produced “an unprecedented global crisis with severe health, economic and social impacts”. …

The Coronavirus is an extraordinary threat to communist China. It’s almost the only thing that could coordinate so many factions against China. In a normal world, China could use this kind of economic bullying China to pick off one country at a time.  But this time, all the other major trading nations of the world could be lined up together — as long as they don’t wait for the WHO or the UN to do it.

Surely it is time to admit that the UN model is inherently prone to corruption and failure — when the WHO utterly failed at the one task it was created for.

Instead, work through a new health agency set up only with the major player countries that pay their way and don’t use a Belt and Road to buy their blind eye.

h/t Colin, David E

*Unfriending, of course, means by CCP mandate.

 

9.6 out of 10 based on 98 ratings

273 comments to China has nothing to hide — but don’t investigate Coronavirus or 1 billion people will unfriend you Australia

  • #

    ‘Australia is gum on the bottom of chinas shoes…..every so often you need a sharp stone to scrape it off’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8265655/Chinese-state-media-insult-Australia-diplomatic-relations-crumble-amid-coronavirus-crisis.html

    I hope the west stands up to china but in all seriousness it seems Australia is pretty much in bed with that country.

    What proportion of your coal exports do they currently take? Could oz withstand a reduction in trade, although if some European cities are anything to go by you won’t miss being inundated by their tourists and students

    250

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Tony, when you’ve been caught flat footed
      Trying to suppress evidence of gross and dangerous stupidity,
      The only way for the CCP to respond is with insults
      As there is no rational reasonable alternative.

      I suspect the true level of support for the CCP
      In the future years
      Will be measured by the increased numbers of Chinese
      Fleeing China and seeking refuge beyond the CCP’s reach.

      260

      • #
        TdeF

        That will bring claims by China to rescue the Chinese in Australia. It happened to Czechoslovakia and Poland. And Hong Kong.
        And now China claims it used to own Taiwan, something Australians think is true.

        180

      • #
        TdeF

        And personally I think President Xi himself realised it was out of control so decided to spread it widely and quickly so that they were not blamed. It is something a child would do. And then accuse anyone of racism if they blame China, as if blame is itself racist. And if possible, blame the American military. All these things have happened.

        And finally, threaten economic retaliation if not military if they are blamed in any way. It’s an appalling way to behave, but within China this is acceptable behavior. Ignore the facts and claim innocence. And stop any investigation. The President is the caring father and blameless.

        220

    • #
      Bulldust

      Someone who knows his place when it comes to China is Andrew Forrest, aka Twiggy:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSU74Br7pWM

      Check that like/dislike ratio! And to think I used to think he was a decent bloke…

      60

      • #
        clive hoskin

        Everything is OK until you threaten his wallet.Then all hell breaks loose.Were talking Billions of dollars here.

        20

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    The UK BBC news allowed a Chinese ambassador to give a prolonged live virus damage limitation speech the other day. The essential message was that China was blameless and had acted with openness honesty and integrity and was freely assisting the global virus fight, but above all, now is no time to point fingers and risk international relations when China is such a world leader in fighting climate change and you wouldn’t want to jeopardize that now would you!

    430

    • #
      nb

      Wait for the recycling on ABC.

      120

    • #
      TdeF

      And receiving climate cash. China is now an historic Climate Victim. It all plays to Christian guilt. So they are not only the world’s greatest generator of CO2, they are exempt and receive carbon credits.

      Now they are Wuhan flu victims too. And it’s your fault.

      220

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Would be interesting to see what the majority of Chinese people think of the CCP’s diplomatic style………. without the personal threat of diplomatic consequences of course.

    190

  • #
    AndyW

    After paying reparations for nuking the world economy I don’t they will be able to afford Australian anything…

    Ane they also going to refuse to import coal as well?

    160

    • #
      Deano

      China often finds imports “Do not meet acceptable standards” when they get their nose out of joint over something. But of course the standards of their exports are exemplary aren’t they. If it wasn’t for Chinese goods, our rubbish collectors would starve!

      50

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Deano, you are shafting the Chinese people.
        But the bulk of the Chinese people are just like us.
        They want to have a reasonable life and take care of family.Our argument
        Our Accusation is directed at the Chinese Communist Party
        Which forms the dictatorial government of China.

        32

        • #
          Deano

          I was referring to the Chinese Government and its industrial policy. Talking to Chinese people I work with, most of them quietly agree with my views. Notice that wealthy Chinese citizens go crazy for western quality products.

          Anyway Bill, you can disagree with me and I won’t harvest your kidneys!

          10

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Since China has already been tried and sentenced, what possible value will be gained from such an inquiry?
    Certainly, in the age of fake news, any outcome will be assessed along partisan lines and no opinions will be changed.
    Interested scientists, on the other hand, reporting in their journals, have nothing but praise for the speed in which China produced the genetic blueprint for the virus.

    269

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Ohhh dear Peter !
      Your real ideological bias is finally showing !

      There has been no ‘jury’ trying and convicting China.
      But there has been a mass of evidence pouring out of China
      Almost all from the Chinese people,
      Indicating that this dictatorial regime
      Tried to suppress news of this CCP virus
      And thus encourage it’s global spread.

      But your comment does show us a couple of things:
      1: You are a friend of the Chinese Communist Party
      2: You are no friend of the Chinese people
      3:You do not care about all the people who are ill
      Or about those who are dead from this CCP virus.

      533

      • #
        AndyG55

        Let’s face it, Peter has “have nothing but praise” for anything that is far-left, anti-human rhetoric or actions.

        And he swallows “fake news” from the leftist agenda media without even a thought or a question.

        181

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Bill – reading your statement I would like to ask you a question.

        If China is hiding evidence as is alleged, then why has there been “been a mass of evidence pouring out of China” – your statement.

        It can not be both – and Occam’s razor would suggest that all the ballyhoo is just to distract from the poor performance of the major western democracies.

        Personally, I think it was the American military wot done it.

        028

        • #
          AndyG55

          ““been a mass of evidence pouring out of China””

          LOL, well censored evidence.

          I don’t think you have a clue what Occam’s razor is. !

          Good to see you “protecting” your communist mates, as usual.

          “I think it was the American military wot done it.”

          And yet another evidence-free baseless conjecture.. your modus operandi.

          171

          • #
            sophocles

            careful Andy: he might know that an “Occam’s Razor” is not something to shave with.
            I realize the evidence is not strong.

            11

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Then you are ignoring the evidence
          That flowed out of China in January & February
          Via the media & social media
          And ignoring how the CCP gradually suppressed all those media outlets
          And stopped people using social media.
          WE remember Fitz, even if you don’t want to.

          211

        • #
          Meglort

          More likely the American Democrats, Bill Gates, George Soros et.al. supporting their partners in global crime the CCP.

          And a suspect that rigorously destroyed and ignored evidence, spread misinformation, stifled debate and harassed and bullied witnesses and anyone questioning their behaviour would generally be considered as unlikely to be innocent.

          spectemur agendo.

          40

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      Fitzy,

      “have nothing but praise for the speed in which China produced the genetic blueprint for the virus.”

      When you have produced the virus it pays to wait a few days before you come forward with the genetic blueprint…

      480

    • #
      AndyG55

      “have nothing but praise for the speed in which China produced the genetic blueprint for the virus.”

      LOL, thanks for absolute proof that China is responsible.

      So handy having that genetic blueprint ON HAND. !

      You seem to be a prime case of “feet-in-mouth” disease.

      321

    • #
      nb

      Have interested scientists also praised China for closing travel in China but calling international travel bans racist?
      [“The CCP”] kills. Fentanyl. Virus. What next?

      *Edited for accuracy and bah, Section 18C. – J

      60

    • #
      nb

      Do scientists also praise China for closing travel in China calling international travel bans racist?

      111

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ … what possible value will be gained from such an inquiry?’

      Because 90% of world pandemics originate in China, which includes influenza. Quite frankly Fitz, I’m over biological warfare.

      In other news: ‘Prototype vaccine being developed in Queensland generates immunity levels greater than those in recovered coronavirus patients.’ Oz

      250

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        you see – all of the above comments prove my point.

        Mad cow? swine flu? MERS?

        take the blinkers off, mate.

        421

        • #
          AndyG55

          You have shown this Covid-19 is from CHINA.

          Keep doubling down, its funny . 😉

          110

          • #
            AndyG55

            China MUST take more responsibility for these viruses that keep originating within its borders.

            Hiding and ducking and weaving just make them look all the more culpable of lies and deceit.

            [Snip] Play the ball Andy not the man.]AD

            120

            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              The only problem with that super intense theory is that nearly every country has lying and deceit and secret labs and military research that busies itself with finding more efficient means of killing etc. Did you know that?

              62

            • #
              JanEarth

              Andy

              China MUST take more responsibility for these viruses that keep originating within its borders.

              I hate the CCP as much as anyone here but really that is a ridiculous statement… Did anyone hold Mexico to account for the Swine Flu ?

              We can hold the CCP to account for a lot of things… for instance why did they let international flights out of Wuhan continue while at the same time they stopped all domestic flights out of Hubei province ? Many more things the CCP did that can be questioned. Trying to hold a country to account for a virus which jumps species is a very bad precedent which could easily backfire on any country that tries this besides it is just not moral nor logical. That would be akin to holding Indonesia accountable for the 2004 Tsunami.

              Also try to draw a distinction between the Chinese people and the CCP… Please.

              43

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘ … take the blinkers off, mate.’

          Mad cow and the others didn’t become a world pandemic because of 21st century border controls. China needs to catch up.

          70

        • #
          Serge Wright

          Actually we have only had one global pandemic in the last 100 years, which is COVID-19, so you could say that all pandemics were from China. The other diseases you mention are an own goal. MERS was contained and never became a pandemic, because the Chinese were not involved. Swine Flu was never a pandemic and was no worse than the flu and mad cow disease was not transmittable and not even a virus.

          61

          • #
            el gordo

            According to the CDC.

            ‘Influenza is a highly infectious viral illness. The name “influenza” originated in 15th century Italy, from an epidemic attributed to “influence of the stars.” The first pandemic, or worldwide epidemic, that clearly fits the description of influenza was in 1580. At least four pandemics of influenza occurred in the 19th century, and three occurred in the 20th century.’

            Its also interesting to note there is a post up at the Tusk that supports Fred Hoyle’s idea that these pandemics have astronomical origins. I find this hard to believe.

            30

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Polio in the 1950’s : global pandemic !

            40

          • #
            sophocles

            The 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu was declared a pandemic, according to the CDC
            (here: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/information_h1n1_virus_qa.htm. )

            Covid is therefore the second 21st Century pandemic.

            00

    • #
      MudCrab

      “Since China is clearly innocent and a big fun loving fluffy panda, what possible gain can be made in investigating?”

      Feel free to copy/paste the above, young Peter, it will make you look less of a Chi-Shrill trying to hide something and more like a big cute fluffy panda. People, you see, like pandas.

      Also: Remember, no one investigated the Titanic cause everyone could plainly see it had already sunk.

      51

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Also: Remember, no one investigated the Titanic cause everyone could plainly see it had already sunk.

        In fact, there were two inquiries.

        One by the Senate of the USA Congress; the other by the British Wreck Commissioner on behalf of the British Board of Trade.

        Both inquiries led to changes in maritime safety practices following the disaster.

        And, that’s what should happen here with the Chinese Communist Party’s cover-up of the virus leak from its P4 Biolab or from the Wet Market that didn’t sell bats. Take your pick.

        50

        • #
          sophocles

          The changes from the enquiries didn’t do much.
          The Titanic went down in April, 1912.
          HMHS Britannic, the Titanic’s sister ship, fitted with all the recommended modifications and then some, went down in the Aegean after hitting a German mine, November 1916. It was only finished in December 1915 and sank in November 1916.

          The `Unsinkables’ kept sinking.
          (There was little loss of life for this sinking: 30.)

          10

          • #
            Roger Knights

            “HMHS Britannic, the Titanic’s sister ship, fitted with all the recommended modifications and then some, went down in the Aegean after hitting a German mine, November 1916.”

            I’ve read that its captain, who wanted to beach the ship, failed to learn from the Titanic’s rapid sinking—its attempt to get moving again. And to do so bow-forward, which forced water into it. In WW2, one of the Titanic’s surviving officers was in charge of a destroyer that was damaged after it rammed a sub. He headed for port stern-first and made it.

            Are you sure there were only 30 dead from the Aegean sinking? I thought it was most of those aboard.

            10

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      I for one think that like in every other country, the government is often so stratified within its own country that it can take ages if ever, for the left hand to know what the right hand is doing.

      Now is the worst time to start begging for further deterioration in relations. Worst time. Extremely irresponsible to start stirring up trouble at this time.

      We have far more productive things to do, and should avoid destructive name calling and so forth. The last thing we need in view of our vulnerability at this time.

      216

      • #
        Mike Jonas

        Appeasement never works.

        That’s not just a bland statement, it is straightforward game theory: you see, when you appease a bully, you are encouraging the bully to do more of the same. I don’t want Xi Jinping to be encouraged AT ALL. If it hurts Australia in the short term to stand up to Xi Jinping, then so be it. It will end up costing Australia a lot less in the long term.

        The largest possible red thumb for you.

        230

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Ahhh E S !
        Are you showing your true colours now ?
        Go CCP China
        All the way !
        Did you say you are Australian ?

        40

      • #
        MP

        The media just makes this stuff up and presents it to the world like we think that. Though there are a few starting to think like that due to believing the media rants.
        Your dead right now is not the time to be shaking the cage, that’s a flogging to no where. We do not have the industry to convert over to a war footing, we cannot supply the fuel to protect ourselves and there is a lot of water between us and our friends, who are also facing the exact same threat.
        Need to calm down and get ourselves out of the hole we are in

        22

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      Peter, to help you prove your point beyond any reasonable doubt, i also gave you a red thumb. Thank you for using this opportunity to conduct your social research here today. 🙂

      33

    • #
      sophocles

      Peter Fitzroy the 2nd alleges:

      Since China has already been tried and sentenced, what possible value will be gained from such an inquiry?

      Oh? Have you held your own `Kangaroo Court’ then, Peter?

      And you didn’t invite the rest of us?
      tsk! tsk! tsk! That was very unfriendly.
      .

      If NZ stands with Australia and China `unfriends’ both of us, then Bring it On.

      Our rural roads and highways will be safe from mad, dangerous, idiotic Chinese drivers. The hire car companies may even be able to lower their rates when the numbers of written-off Rental cars trend down to zero too.

      Maybe the savings in just insurance alone will make up for the loss of the maniacs.
      We could pay back our National Debt in just a few years!

      91

  • #
    John Galt

    It says on the Statue of Liberty, “Send Us Your Wine and Your Beef, Australia.”
    OK, we are merely 330 million but we have hearty appetites.
    Open Your borders, and some who are still healthy would love to join you at the pub or cafe, too.
    Cheers from rural GA, USA. (But I’d rather be in QLD ;^)

    280

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Hi John, we’re happy to send any amount
      Of beef, lamb, wine and dairy.
      But for the moment the borders are closed to humans
      And when they open soon,
      All visitors will spend 14 days in quarantine.
      There is a plan to get one of the beautiful Great Barrier Reef islands
      Set aside as a quarantine locale.
      So that might suit you !

      121

      • #
        Alessandro

        [Snip]Anyone from outside QLD is now an alien especially the Cockroaches and Mexicans. In the meantime we get harassed if we sail out to one of the Whitsunday Islands (discovered by Cook by the way, 250 years this year) and moor up. Perfect isolation but unless you’re fishing its not on.

        52

        • #
          JanEarth

          Alessandro

          Cook never “discovered” anything. He was maybe the first European to see the Whitsundays but that is even debatable.

          James Cook was however a notable explorer perhaps the greatest that ever lived by certain metrics. His journeys make for interesting reading.

          42

      • #
        sophocles

        What? The one with all the fake coral bleaching?

        60

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        That would be one thing, two weeks on Norfolk or Christmas another.
        Best hope for many tourism type things is a proven immunity that can be tested or vaccinated for….

        00

    • #
      bobl

      If only!, the USA is too busy buying food from nations that send it illegal immigrants along side. I don’t think the USA has any interest in really doing business here, even though we have a lot to offer – probably 90% of Australia is unexplored for minerals, and we have some of the best and cleanest food in the world. You hardly ever even see an American tourist here. For one we could do a real deal with US.GOV/UK.GOV to produce all the worlds rare earths here instead of china and maybe you’d even like our uranium.

      The USA had the opportunity to lease the port of Darwin but did it? No, instead China…

      52

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        It sounded like an offer of friendship Bob, from someone who is not a politician.

        It’s not the people of the world who are the problem, it’s the Management.

        🙂

        100

        • #
          bobl

          Sorry,
          I didn’t mean to come across unfriendly, I just wish the west, especially, Australia, UK, Canada, India and New Zealand would join forces.

          I love Americans, particularly in fly over land where I spent quite a time on one holiday. I do wish they’d buy our goods and sample our hospitality though. I promise I won’t force feed you Vegemite.

          20

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Now you’ve really done it;

            ” I just wish the west, especially, Australia, UK, Canada, India and New Zealand would join forces ”

            You left out the U.S.

            🙂

            10

          • #
            sophocles

            Don’t need to: there’s the Commonwealth of Nations already … ah … still.

            We could all leave the UN (UNExit) and form a new League of Nations. 😀
            That should terrify the rest of the world …

            00

      • #
        yarpos

        Americans think 5 hours in a plane is a long time. Typically they dont get 4 weeks annual leave or long service leave so favour closer destinations with less time burnt up in travel. They are culturally parochial in the mainstream (a good many arent these days but the big numbers are what matters). I doubt we will ever have significant numbers (as a % of total) tourist numbers from the USA, especially now cruise ships will not be in favour for a long long time.

        40

        • #
          Richard Ilfeld

          More to the point, most of us think thirty seconds on a topic is being thoughtful.
          But we do tend to figure things out.
          And there aren’t that many really friendly places in the world.
          Set up reasonable rules and we’ll find a way to make it work.

          20

      • #
        John Galt

        Hi, bobl,
        No argument from me on actions of politicians in either the US or Australia.
        I may be the number one booster for Australia in the US, but the “not invented here” propaganda is pretty invasive around the world.
        It is a long flight for people who only have a 2 week holiday and the Caribbean and Mexico resorts are so much closer.
        I’ve been fortunate to stay from a month to a year each time I have made the trip.
        Australia has a lot to offer including hard working, inventive, friendly people.
        In my experience the people of Australia and the US have a lot of similarities and admirable traits.
        I tried to make an export business work in Australia in 2012-2014 for some products from the US, but had no success.
        (It was an efficiency product for the mining and oil industry, but a difficult product to sell for me.)
        I might still be there working on that if the immigration rules weren’t so difficult for people over 55 years of age.
        When the current border restrictions are ameliorated, I’ll be back with products of my own design and making.

        There appear to be a lot of ill feelings against Chinese products in the US at present.
        Perhaps some of the manufacturing based in China will return to other places.
        If so, then the amount of raw material exported from Australia should shift to the other locations including some in the West.
        (Raw materials like iron, oil, and gold are 67% of exports from Australia; meat produce is 4%; wine 1%.)
        But I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for those facilities to be built here in the US.
        Unless they are primarily robotic manufacturing the labor and government imposed overhead costs just don’t justify it.
        It appears that the shift is more likely to be to other Asian locations that are already significant importers from Australia.

        I have enjoyed my times (lots of long flights from overseas since 1986) living in Australia and I’m looking forward to the next one being a more permanent stay, if possible.
        Meanwhile I have to settle for imported Shiraz and phone calls to mates in Brissie.

        Cheers!

        30

  • #
    EasilySolved

    Still in your bubble Fitzy. I bet you have nice things to say Stalin too.

    171

    • #
      TedM

      No Stalin only killed 13,000,000 of Russia’s own citizens, small fry compared with Mao and the CCP.

      170

  • #
    Steve Brown

    Now Australia is relegated to the status of “gum on the bottom of a shoe”. How nice. How diplomatic.
    Stinks of panic to me.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8265655/Chinese-state-media-insult-Australia-diplomatic-relations-crumble-amid-coronavirus-crisis.html

    110

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Once the German propaganda machine called some Aussie soldiers the “Rats of Tobruk”, because they sheltered in dugouts until Rommel’s troops attacked, then appeared and repelled the attacks. That insult finished up as a badge of honour for our troops, and didn’t help Hitler at all.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      200

      • #
        sophocles

        And El Alamein was payback.
        I wonder if Rommel ever did work out what hit him …

        50

      • #
        glen Michel

        I gather most of the Tobruk containment was done by Italian troops. They fought very well and gave our chaps some grief.

        10

        • #
          glen Michel

          As for Alamein the 9th division did very well. Principally shortage of supply in fuel and spare parts on the German side and an overwhelming advantage, particularly heavy guns settled the issue. Yank industry to the rescue.

          20

  • #
    Geoff Croker

    The idea that China is somehow reponsible or our GREED is ludicrous. The simplest way to reduce foreign domination is to compete with them. For leaderless Australia this is a bridge too far. We have two choices. The Russian Front LNP or Treblinka ALP. Neither are going to save us. Best not to mention the minor parties. Too embarasing even for listing. Then there is the real government. Always out for themselves. State, Service and Public separated by self interest.

    So here we all reside. Awaiting the generation fall that must surely come. Its taken almost 50 years to get here but now it is almost upon us. Ironically cut down by a deep fear of our mortality at a point when lifespans and quality are at their maximum.

    I truly wish there could have been another fix. Unfortunately “blood everywhere” is the only way. One hundred odd are gone from a well marketed virus. A personal tradgedy. Now watch the 100,000 go with our self imposed “solution”. If you are afraid of Covid-19 then you should be afraid of the Covid-19 “solution”. Very afraid.

    184

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Another friend of the Chinese Communist Party
      Hey Geoff ?
      Different lyrics to Peter, but the same tune !

      314

      • #
        yarpos

        Cobblers bill you are reading your own biases into his comments

        In summary, stop being a quarry, add value locally , stop making cheap sh1t from China the first buying choice.

        70

    • #
      TedM

      I think I missed your point Geoff, can you run that past me again.

      101

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Our politicians are shafting us.

        91

        • #
          WXcycles

          … after we shafted ourselves.

          China is not going to mange to back-up Australia here. We may also be self-harming, but on principle this time, the only rational reason to do it. We’ve some solid friends and very good near neighbors to trade with us who trust us and like what we do and sell.

          We were always going to have to wake up and stand up to China, and they have given us a whole bunch of reasons to do it during the past 11 years. Remember that demand for a $30 iron ore contract, in Qtr 1, 2009, while the rest of Asia still pays $60? That was enough for me, they thought the USA was finished, the Australia would have to bend to Beijing or be broken by the CCP. We refused and China ended up paying ~$120 instead!

          The CCP just provided the perfect triggering events and motivation to finally do something about their outrageous behavior and wolf in sheep’s clothing act.

          230

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I was replying to Ted in that comment.
            You have some interesting detail there but I’m not sure of what your first two sentences are getting at?

            12

        • #
          MP

          I think you will find we are shafting ourselves

          21

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Not us MP
            The CCP are shafting themselves
            Under the inglorious leadership
            Of Ji Jin Ping

            10

            • #
              MP

              The CCP were the cause, (I thought it was a bat coughed on an armadillo which spat on a snake that sneezed on a human) I am talking about the result

              21

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I don’t understand your point. Most of what is done is hidden from the voters: explain that.

            11

            • #
              MP

              We begged our gov to lock us up, close the schools, Palacechook stated the same.
              We asked for it.

              33

              • #

                Yes, indeed, the people did want the lockdown. And the people like what the government has done, but we live in a democracy. Me, I wish they’d been smart and done it sooner so we didn’t get the virus here in the first place, and none of the lockdown and economic pain was necessary at all. I tried.

                The media was asleep at the wheel, like the politicians and acadmics. In Feb, they all undersold the risk. Then in March they may have have oversold it. But because they all acted too late, some form of lockdown was inevitable. We in Australia are fantastically blessed that it was not as severe as in Italy, Spain, France and the UK.

                We the people also asked to be serfs to China. Geoff is right. We bought the cheap chinese goods, and let China get in a position to hold us over a barrel. We sold off our manufacturing. We were naive and complacent, asleep at the wheel.

                The solution now is to show Australians how the CCP are a threat, how they are not playing by the high trust society rules we have become cushioned to expect.

                And if the medical fear is overdone, in a democracy, the solution is to persuade the people, to give them the data and the arguments. I’ll post mortality curves in a minute, and yet again, the data shows this is an event like no other in our lives, in a medical sense. For all the people who are suffering financially, just repeating that only 1 in 100 die, obviously does not calm the majority. Some think, “that could be my mother” while the others think “it’ll never happen to me”.

                Those who suffer financially, who wish there was no lockdown now, how many emailed their MP’s in February to ask them to stop the flights so we didn’t need the lockdown? I know some did. (Thanks to those who tried).

                We can’t change the mistakes of Feb and MArch, but we can now make the lockdown as efficient as possible, to get the virus to zero if it’s possible, as fast as possible, so the economy can be unleashed asap. What everyone wants. (Apart from the CCP). Then we make sure the power-hungry parasites lift every single one of their emergency controls as soon as reasonably possible.

                If the borders stay shut temporarily (for months at least) we should get back 97% of our economy and all our freedoms apart from holidays in Phuket, and easy overseas travel. We will lose foreign tourists from the US and UK and other nations which still don’t have control. But soon we will gain even some of those from nations which do, like NZ, like Norway, Czech Rep, Taiwan, South Korea, Switzerland, and others. Look at the curves. We hope the US and UK join us sooner rather than later.

                101

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                ?
                O.K. I’ve got it now, I think.

                10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                After the situation calms down, it will be excellent and opportune to look at those political “people” relationships again. ‘One thing at a time’, and, ‘steady as she goes’ at this time i suspect.

                let me add, being careful not to burn bridges and so forth is paramount at this time in my one day perhaps, expert opinion.

                10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                And spare a thought for the actual Chinese people. If intense current anti china rhetoric continues, the Chinese gov will have even more leverage and power. Instead of Chinese people perceiving us as a trading partners, we will be perceived as trouble makers and no longer needed giving power possessor ruling class even more power.

                And this is what i am afraid Jo and government others might be helping to shape here as this unfolds.

                My worst fear.

                20

              • #
                MP

                I have known your stance on this from day dot of the event and you where ahead of the game in that respect.
                At first I was on board until the Government went full retard on the draconian measures, speaking to us like children, telling us we could walk on the beach but below the high tide mark, “if your feet are wet your safe” this is way to much power for that lot.
                The Virus does not worry me, the result of the inch we gave is they have taken a mile, not getting that back concerns me.
                The fact the media and everything else is just shoving this down our throats, it is everywhere, every window every door and knowing how they roll and who they roll with makes me very very suspicious about anything they report, the flood.
                I do actually care about the people paying off their properties and more so those who have remortgaged their home and got an investment home then tenants were told they don’t have to pay rent. That was us a few years ago, you don’t have to put yourselves in their shoes, we were in their shoe’s.
                This has the potential to go very bad very quickly, I lost all trust in government when I saw all our taxes being spent on absolute BS everywhere and they don’t even try to hide it anymore, they steal from in front of our very eye’s and they tell us to trust them because their Government.

                This has duck written all over it.

                71

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Jo, in my defense. I think the chief difference in my virus opinion that is contrary to yours, is that i honestly believe that by the time we even worried about a lockdown, there were super spreaders across all four corners of the globe…the virus pandemic is at least six months old now.

                31

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                And i think cautiously that viruses are another order of magnitude more difficult to manage than fruit flies of even feral rabbits immune to myxomatosis. I do not see it happening. The cat is out of the bag…sigh!

                41

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                I think we did our best, and still do so far.

                10

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                And here’s the reply I received:

                “Dear (Deleted Name),

                Thank you for your email of 4th March 2020 regarding the Coronavirus, and please accept my deepest condolences with respect to the death of your friend Mr Kwan.

                I respect and appreciate your concerns surrounding the Coronavirus, as well as your concerns about those travelling to and from areas with high infection rates, such as China, Iran, Italy, and the Republic of Korea. The Government has been and continues to act on the advice of heath and biosecurity experts – which mean new measures are being introduced regularly when recommended by experts. I’m sure you’ve already heard that in the last week our Government introduced new travel restrictions on the Republic of Korea, and has extended the travel restrictions on mainland China and Iran – meaning foreign nationals will not be able to enter Australia within 14 days of visiting these countries. Additionally, Australian citizens, permanent residents, and their immediate family members who have visited or transited through mainland China, Iran or the Republic of Korea will be required to self-isolate at home for 14 days from the day they left that country.

                With respect to Italy, while our Government hasn’t implemented travel restrictions to date, it has implemented enhanced health screening and temperature testing arrangements for those arriving in Australia from Italy (including Australian citizens), and those identified by the screening will be required to self-isolate. Additionally, travellers coming to Australia from Italy will be asked mandatory questions at check-in, and anyone failing those checks will be denied approval to board.

                On the topic of Coronavirus more generally, I am sure that you are already aware of the available resources and fact sheets on the Department of Health website, but just in case you aren’t, I have attached the relevant fact sheets that may be of interest to you. The information can also be found at the following websites:

                • General information – https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-what-you-need-to-know

                Please be assured that the Government and all agencies are continuing to monitor the situation very closely and will continue to respond based on the best available evidence – and this includes any advice with respect to border measures.

                Again, thank you for your email. Please don’t hesitate to get in contact with me again if I can be of further assistance – on this or any other matter.

                Yours sincerely

                Celia

                (Celia Hammond, MP, for Curtin.)

                Yes, I did get in contact again. And, will continue to do so.

                The benefits of living in a democracy, where you don’t get your front door welded shut along with your mouth.

                40

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      Well said Geoff.

      I said right from the start that The Cure Would be Worser than the Virus..

      And, OUR Grubbnmnt is making sure that that will be the case.

      131

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Agreed.

        As the economy comes roaring back – I encourage everyone to go get a hair cut, get the car serviced, buy many coffees, and also buy a coffee for the police and ambos and firies and the council workers as thanks for putting up with the whole mess.

        In the USA, apparently Democrats in some states are pushing to keep the economy shut down to try and derail Trump. They appear to be communist saboteurs and should be jailed for working against the country.

        183

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Great view of the “sold down the river” syndrome.

      Our leaders have skimmed and creamed from Australia’s wealth for decades now and Australians can’t see it.

      As to the virus treatment adopted for Australia, Bob gives a well thought through outline;

      http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/the-world-watches-australia-and-nz-tracking-to-zero-can-we-extinguish-coronavirus/#comment-2318519

      Clear thinking is not absent from Australia, it’s just swamped by the bipolar politics Geoff describes.

      KK

      41

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        We may not be happy with our leaders…US, OZ, Euro but we can change them rather easily. Not so easy to
        change the CCP but the templates are there. Total war or economic war; both have worked.
        Yes, any kind of war will be very hard on the “chines people”.
        It will be very hard on us, too.
        But, as in most prior wars, the aims and aspirations of the opposition have been made absolutely clear.
        China is not secretive about its goals. It has never apologized for it’s methods.
        If China wished, to take but one example to build an island in the south China sea and militarize it,
        they will simply do so. If they wish you to have a Chinese “partner” to sell in China, they will do so.

        You can resist, or “cooperate”. To some cooperation looks very much like appeasment, and a movie we have seen
        before.

        As in previous dramas, in this remake, some event reveals the true intents of the aggressor, which have hiding in plain site.

        Who might be our Winston, and lead us through these perilous times of strife? Or perhaps a Ronald, to wage the conflict economically?
        Or a Chamberlain, and we can all learn Mandarin.

        THis might well be a time for choice.

        20

    • #
      MP

      Mate this is a narcissists blog. They only care that they survive as they already own their own homes, super and pension.
      All others can perish in poverty as long as they maintain their status for the remaining few years of their lives.
      They will line up for the vaccine and request two. They will wait in their bathrooms until Government saves them.

      only 100’000, your an optimist.

      612

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        So you deny the medical science ?
        We are sceptics here MP.
        We examine & test the evidence.
        But we do not deny it when it stares us in the face
        Like this pandemic.
        Only narcissists do that.

        55

        • #
          MP

          My other reply to your comment is still in moderation.

          So you deny the medical science ? You deny climate science
          We are sceptics here MP. I see zero scepticism, I see 100% belief in the data, backed up by Facebook and twitter as fact.
          We examine & test the evidence. Na and Nope
          But we do not deny it when it stares us in the face. You deny climate science staring you in the face, if you want to believe data
          Like this pandemic. Like climate change
          Only narcissists do that. No that is not Narcissistic trait. But using your own metric, you just called yourself a narcissist

          214

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            MP.

            The person you are dealing with reflects the views of approximately 0.0097 % of those contributing here.
            Maybe you are talking into an echo chamber?

            I have responded to one of your comments elsewhere and maybe, if I had read this exchange first, my comment would have been different.

            KK

            12

            • #
              MP

              Thank you for your response and I appreciate your opinion.

              But it is a far greater % then your claim. But not all, so I apologise for not clarifying.

              I am pointing out the hypocrisy of his claim. Believe the evidence when it suits your bias.

              My first response is in moderation (still) and it was a direct reply to
              [ SNIP] Choose your words carefully or your guaranteed to end up in moderation.] AD

              20

              • #
                MP

                Got to call a spade a spade. is as does
                The snip was not about you KK.

                AD what about the one in moderation, for most of the day

                [ I’ve just dealt with it .]AD

                20

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              [Enough. OK? It’s all getting too personal. – Jo]

              22

          • #
            AndyG55

            “You deny climate science staring you in the face”

            LOL,

            You are invited to produce one single paper showing empirical science of warming by atmospheric CO2

            There is no actual “climate science” to deny.. anywhere.

            Its just fake unverified models and propaganda pap.

            30

        • #
          MudCrab

          Hey Bill,

          on the topic of being willing to test and analyse data here is something to muse over.

          Go to coivid19data.com.au and wander to the Hospitalisations/ICU tab.

          Exploring further you should find a nice chart with green/grey/black bars listing Hospitalised, ICU and Ventilated people.

          The national chart claims we hit peak ventilator on 13 Apr 20 with 46 people and seem to have 27 still with ventilator assisted medical add.

          When you go to the state break down chart below we can see a more detailed breakdown of ventilator use.

          WA – Hit peak ventilator use of ZERO on 01 Apr 20 and maintained ever since.
          SA – As above
          TAS – Okay, a small state, which probably explains their zero ventilator use and peak of two for ICU.
          ACT – Two. The link between ventilators and political density has not been made. It is there! We just can’t find it.
          Process of elimination clearly shows the eastern states is where the use is happening but even then Victoria, interestingly enough, didn’t have their first until 13 Apr 20.

          So…

          Not a huge need for ventilators as it turned out.

          Who was it the other week who suggested that building new factories to make ventilators was a no brainer?

          I would suggest that whoever said that is adult enough to admit the original claim was made based on the then best data available and, based on the current ‘best’ data they no longer support that conclusion.

          However this also raises the point that had industry actually acted on this original suggestion (an engineering impossibility fortunately) then we would have scores of factories and supply chained now lined up to produced products we do not need. We would have, in hindsight, panicked.

          Life, unfortunately, doesn’t come with clear time stamps. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight is a dark art. All we can really do is question CONSTANTLY, keep our eyes on the big picture, keep calm, act rationally with a purpose and carry on.

          70

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Mudcrab
            Ventilators were a medical response to the fact the the critically ill
            Were unable to breathe.
            It is a way of getting more oxygen into the lungs.
            However I’m sure you read Jo’s post about 10 days ago
            About a new hypothesis: That the virus causes hypoxia
            That the virus destroys the bloods ability to absorb and carry oxygen.
            That to me was a key new understanding.
            And it makes ventilators unnecessary.
            It may be that medical staff dealing with COVID 19 patients
            Have adopted this insight and are now treating their patients
            As they would for altitude sickness.
            As you write hind sight is fantastic..
            But with a new disease like this there isn’t any.
            And we all have to learn as we go
            Both the general public & the medical staff all over the world.

            20

        • #
          MP

          To all those hidden. Yeah take my own advice and calm down.

          I am not attacking the person I am attacking the views of the person.

          Yep that all looks fine, now I know how this works.

          12

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            “calm down”
            Nothing wrong with that advice and especially when it could prevent a war or something worse whilst we are so amazingly vulnerable.

            10

          • #
            MP

            Thats my concern. The media won’t back off, the Gov bangs on with the same distractions all the while announcing to the world “The Australian people demand it”.

            We are in the worst position possible.

            51

            • #

              Choices of those who want lockdown lifted:

              1. convince fellow voters to accept death rates of 1 in 200 to 1 in 50.
              2. make the lockdown work, keep borders shut temporarily, and get back to business.

              2nd option means business people get back to business, and solves real fears of most voters.

              I seriously doubt option 1 has any chance, would be faster or more effective and suspect even if it was achieved that the long run costs of living with the virus would be far worse than the cost of not getting tourists from Wuhan, and missing our holidays in Bali.

              51

              • #
                TdeF

                As Australians are the world’s greatest tourists, 1 million people a month, 12 million a year, half of the entire population including every man, woman and child, it will be fascinating to see if the tourist people can exploit the biggest tourists at home. It’s all down to airfares.

                Who wouldn’t go to Perth for $400 return? Or Broome? Or Cairns? Or even NZ? The aircraft are parked at the airport doing nothing. And they cannot go anywhere else.

                If Jacinda Ahern was a businesswoman, she would be promoting NZ like mad. And every island in the South Pacific. Subject to simple tests, maybe. But what an opportunityh to keep the people and the cash at home? Venice and Paris and Berlin and Istanbul can wait.
                The wine is far better in the Margaret River or NZ or the Barossa. And we have crocodiles and the Birdsvile races and Tasmania.

                It’s the travel business of a lifetime. It’s almost embarassing that Australians think so little of Australian beaches that they would rather go to Phuket or Bali. I saw a sign in Shanghai, to the beach. I laughed. Where the bloody hell are you? should be Why the bloody hell did you leave?

                50

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Why the bloody hell did you leave?

                I like it!

                10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Bit slow tonight
                cheers!

                20

              • #
                Doc

                TdeF. Every travel agent in the country should be out there advertising about ‘When OUR shutdown
                lifts!’ Well said!

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                Australians need to appreciate the smallest continent on earth, its a completely different culture.

                10

              • #
                Rick Kinsman

                I holiday overseas for one very good reason. It’s cheaper and the offerings and service are usually better. Australian tourism is over priced, as is the food in restaurants (usually).
                I don’t mind paying for good performance, but I refuse to pay good money to be served by some backpacker with no qualifications except a nice smile. Or paying $15 for a beer when I can get perfectly good beer in Rome, Nashville or Phuket for a quarter of the price.
                And, judging by the numbers you quote, it looks like I’m not alone in my beliefs. That said, I have avoided buying anything (especially foodstuffs) made in China for years if there was any other alternative. It was obvious to me that our growing dependence on China would come back and bite our rear-ends – and now it has.

                20

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                NZ has done a booming trade in bunkers for foreign wealthy people….i guess there is an.up side…

                30

              • #
                JanEarth

                I only holiday in Oz…I see no point in going overseas beside I like keeping my carbon footprint tiny so I can shove it in the face of Eco warriors when they challenge me. Believe me my carbon footprint is tiny… not saying that is a virtue but it does shut the EW’s up.

                We use a motorhome made in Australia. On a long trip it uses less fuel than a Ford Falcon, we stay for a few days in every town we stop at and we always spend money in the town when we do. We bloody love it and would not have it any other way. As the years march on we find that whenever a town’s name appears in the media these days we have been there. The most Aussie thing we did was camp on the banks of the Barcoo very close to the black stump…bloody awesome. we shy away from the east coast and never ever will step foot in Surfers.,, been there once and once is enough. Toowoomba is much nicer in our view. I would rather be in Broome any day than spend a minute in Surfers.

                We are Grey but not Nomads. Most of the year is spent at home. We generally travel in the opposite direction to the nomads mainly to avoid the crowds. We both hate crowds.

                The only overseas destination that interests us is New Zealand. It is the only place on Earth with stranger place names than Oz ( except maybe Wales) plus it looks so pretty. When we finally make it we will bring a spare bag of vowels with us…those Kiwi’s could use them.

                Holiday in Oz people…our country folk need your patronage now more than ever. Once the lock down is over of course.

                70

              • #
                Annie

                There is a point to overseas travel if you have family and friends you miss, as we do. Otherwise we would do just what you like to do! We had some amazing trips around Australia in our first two years here. We did have the bonus of reasonably long leave and two older children visiting from boarding school for their holidays; plenty of motivation at that time.

                50

              • #
                Annie

                #53 is in answer to JanEarth.

                10

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘ … you’re and optimist.’

        Me too, its going to be a quick, sharp economic jab, but the fundamentals are sound and it should be a quick recovery. There will be winners and losers at the macro and micro level.

        Looking ahead, I see nationalism reasserting itself and the US eventually withdrawing into isolation, leaving Oceania vulnerable. Australia has to reinvent itself, rediscover through the arts who we really are, a reawakening that isn’t woke.

        41

        • #
          WXcycles

          Agree, but we still have a very soft underbelly, due to the staggering govt, business and private debt levels. The only upside is China’s debt is even worse, and an even bigger bloated debt-bubble, with a hollow, fake and laughable CCP trading ‘market’ sham.

          It may be the CCP feels it’s finally all slipping away, but the only things keeping us relatively stable and thus recoverable are excellent deliverable resources and a link to the US Federal Reserve for financial and market support, plus many shared strategic interests with the USA. If the USA goes bad we’ll go bad too. Looks like our alliance with the US (and by extension Japan) is going to be getting a lot stronger for a few decades into a new ‘cold-war’ and geopolitical and geographical polarization.

          At least a lot of Chinese people detest the CCP and would like it gone. As with the USSR it was the people who finally ended it when the rotten system could not even feed them any longer.

          Fortunately we just bought a large number of very advanced cruise and antiship missiles, as that’s the only thing that will make their military less viable and the threats they issue less persuasive. It’s also the only reason Canberra talks back to them with some spine this time.

          180

          • #
            MP

            Yes but no. the US gave $3 trillion to Blackrock ,(an investment group) google major share holders in Blackrock, you will see at number one is another investment company called Vanguard, check the major shareholders in that, you will see Blackrock, next down is the usual suspects the bankers. Blackrock are buying shares and pumping up the stock market, do you think they are buying stocks in their own portfolio? Now google Major share holders in AGL, Blackrock, now follow the heads of Blackrock and Vanguard. CEO of Blackrock marketing, on the board of the Rocky mountain institute. The RMI sole objective is the removal of fossil fuels. AGL is Aus’s biggest supplier of electricity. Its been years since I looked into those mobs.
            China do not wish to fight a war by invasion of other countries, that is why they never built up the navy’s carrier fleet, they converted a floating casino to a carrier. They built up a defensive navy, they want any war to be fought on their home ground, with their billions of soldiers. They built islands as a defensive ring.
            All socialists first disarm their populations, then they starve them while telling the hungry the farmers are hoarding all the food, then they the Hungry turn on the farmers first. Then history repeats!

            25

            • #
              mikewaite

              MP
              I was struck by your statement :
              -“They built islands as a defensive ring.”-
              I have been thinking myself that the islands were efectively a further flung “Great Wall”
              and intended for defence rather than a springboard for invasion.
              They can take over countries quite easily and without bloodshed by financial means, Ethiopia being an example in many minds at the moment.
              Further down someone mentions taking Darwin Harbour back which amazed me. How did they acquire that?
              Not I assume by dropping paratroopers on it.I think even the BBC would have reported that.
              They achieved therefore peacefully what the Japanese could not in WW2.
              I noticed recently when looking for insurance quotes for a local charity that many of the underwriters were Chinese companies,
              making me wonder how much of the vaunted success of the City of London/Canary Wharf financal centre
              is actually based on Chinese money. That might explain a lot about UK foreign policies.

              20

        • #
          MP

          No it will not be a quick recovery, the governments have already retracted the V shaped recovery.

          61

          • #
            el gordo

            V, U, W or L?

            ‘An economic “V” shape implies a swift recovery out of what will be an historically shocking June quarter. A “U” implies a slower turnaround into recovery, maybe lingering through to 2021. A “W” implies things might get worse again before they get better, and and an obvious trigger for that would be a feared “second wave” of the virus. An “L” implies things don’t get any better for a long time.’

            FNArena

            Australia will be V shaped, the US and Britain more U, while Italy looks L.

            30

            • #
              MP

              I think it was last night the Head of the reserve bank stated Aus will be flat until 2021. Models are never wrong.

              21

              • #
                el gordo

                The Reserve is a little conservative, normalcy will gradually return and by Xmas we’ll be laughing.

                ‘ASX lifts 1.5pc on hope of easing restrictions. Australian stocks are tipped for a positive start despite falls on a volatile Wall Street and as US oil prices tumbled again.’ Oz

                20

      • #
        sophocles

        Why do you continue to rabbit on about a vaccine?
        One isn’t necessary.

        Here’s a paper especially for you MP, and Sunni Bakchat, Raving and all the others who are too scared of overdosing on Vitamin D. I found it especially for you:

        30

        • #
          sophocles

          Hmm that was clever:

          https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1447-0594.2011.00716.x

          Paper name: “Vitamin D deficiency: Implications for acute care in the elderly and in patients with chronic illness ” 2011, Youssef et al.

          Sponsor: Japan Geriatrics Society.

          Check Japan’s Covid results. Maybe they read their research.
          There is a curse on Western Countries and its not the CCP it’s their Health Departments
          Deaths attributed to Covid seem to have “underlying medical conditions” as the excuse. Note:
          excuse, not reason. It would be cheaper to supply quantities of colercalciferol supplements free to all than to shut down the economy and kill off the elderly without testing. I don’t mean Covid testing, I mean testing for Vitamin D Deficiency.

          There is a curse on New Zealand: it’s the New Zealand Health Department which defines as “Adequate” serum levels of calcidiol (V D 3 in the blood) which are less than 25ng.ml — well into the Deficient levels.

          If you are worried about vitamin D3 toxicity, read the paper carefully. You have nothing to worry about.

          70

          • #
            Slithers

            Exactly what I have been saying over and over. Get your Vitamin D levels checked. If that’s too hard because you hate needles then get some cheap Vitamin D supplements and follow the minimum dose instructions. I complained that the WHO and MSM were not shouting this from the roof tops, but of course there is no money in that approach, nor the power of tracking Apps!

            30

        • #
          MP

          oooh you think vaccines contain vitamins. Is that to make you immune from vitamins. You trust the WHO and Billy boy.
          Lets see, there is now evidence that people previously infected and recovered are being re-infected, they have already got antibodies.
          So how is this vaccine supposed to help if the very antibodies to protect, don’t protect.

          Mate you really have to insert the link.

          16

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Vitamin D3 improves the body’s ability to fight the virus.
            But medically speaking it is NOT a vaccine.
            Vaccines are ‘analogues’ of the virus or bacteria.
            They too are designed to build up the body’s immunity
            By giving the body a ‘taste’ of it.

            [SNIP. Best leave out the condescenion please! – Jo]

            30

            • #
              MP

              Feel free to express the more complicated ways, I won’t hold my breath.

              I have a bit of an understanding of Vit D, my cattle get a shot of D + selenium on induction.
              As you pointed out I am not an expert, but it was not I who presented a Vitamin as a Vaccine.

              And in no ones speaking is it a Vaccine

              04

              • #
                tom0mason

                From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine

                Definition of vaccine
                : a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease

                40

              • #

                MP Sophocles never suggested for a moment that it was a vaccine. Can we all please calm down?

                Vit D won’t save everyone (but neither usually does a Vaccine). In this case Vit D is low risk, helps against most respiratory illnesses, is cheap and might prevent cancer, asthma, depression as a side effect.

                A vaccine may not even be possible in this battle, or it may be one of those expensive ones that the government subsidizes and pushes as an annual thing. We all know who gets rich.

                Beating this virus in other ways may well be a lot cheaper in the long run. It is most costly to do quarantine now, but in the long run, letting this rip each year with annual vacc’s that cost a lot but only reduce the odds by 50% (see the US CDC on annual Flu shots) is a lousy deal if we can avoid it.

                We pay now for two months to avoid paying in lives and dollars and productivity for the next thirty years. Even 20% of the young are at risk of losing weeks or even months off work, plus getting potentially permanent damage to lungs, kidney’s, hearts and other organs. They survive but there may be cognitive damage from strokes and oxygen deprivation during ICU. There may be relapses. There may be no protection from getting it again.

                Vaccines may possibly cause a more severe disease in people than they would have got. It happens. It’s why testing should be at least 1 year to 18 months. We want to make sure that it doesn’t prime the immune system in a detrimental way.

                71

          • #
            sophocles

            To MP @ #9.5.3.2

            Mate: you really have to open your eyes and look.

            What is that red coloured text in the post you responded to?
            (Hint: it’s line 2 and 2 is the number which follows 1. )

            Maybe it’s a link.
            But just in case it doesn’t work for you, here’s another one:
            https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/6/e001663
            It should go to the same paper …
            And here’s a second paper you might also find interesting:
            https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/4/988/htm

            Read the papers … if you can.

            If you have difficulties with them, I can help you with the larger and harder words; you only have to ask.

            You say you know a bit about about vitamin D. Which bits are you having difficulty with? I can see and understand that you actually don’t know that vitamin D is not a vitamin, but a secosteroid. Secosteroid is a fancy word for `hormone.’ The entry in Wikipedia for secosteroid shows a pretty picture of vitamin D 3 – or colocalciferol. You seem to be a sufficiently mature individual to appreciate pretty pictures.

            You’re right: Vitamin-D is not a vaccine, nor did I offer it as one. This is the most advanced case of cretinous coprocephaly I have so far encountered, therefore, in all earnestness, I advise you to leave what the vets give your cows at induction time well alone. At the strength the vitamin D would be given to the cow, it has been known to ossify intellects, not just strengthen skeletons. The larger dinosaurs would not have survived without strong skeletons. Never mind their brains. You can thank them for vitamin D 3. See https://wikipedia.org/en/Argentinosaurus.

            10

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Weird stuff there.
        Who exactly fits that description here.
        Certainly not me.

        KK

        21

  • #
    Lank

    Surely the WHO should be leading the call for an enquiry. If they are to restore any of their lost credibility over their handling of this disaster they should be pushing for an investigation to find how the virus leaked and establish mechanisms to prevent future virus catastrophes.
    If the WHO became a leader and not a follower they may have a future.

    62

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Who trusts the WHO ?
      That CCP teddy bear Tedros needs to go
      As a first step towards the WHO having
      An once of credibility !
      But he will not resign.
      He’s there to defend the CCP

      80

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      You’re assuming the WHO are independent of the Chinese. They are not, so will not criticise or investigate. They’ve done their job already and demonstrated their loyalty.

      We need not give them any more authority, they’ve already jumped that shark.

      60

    • #
      RickWill

      The WHO want the authority to investigate in countries without sovereign approval. The UN and its agencies are always seeking greater authority over sovereign nations. With authority comes power and funding.

      The UN and its agencies need to be shut down not encouraged. They are worse than useless. The egocentric globalists who administer the agencies have inflicted tremendous harm across the globe.

      70

    • #

      Lank, I would argue Surely Morrison, Boris Trump everyone should be giving up on the WHO. The incentives are all wrong. An international government body with votes from tin-pot nations that can be bought off is never going to serve the democratic nations of the world. Just pack it up. Quit, and set up a smaller institution that only serves similar democratic nations. We will help the poor nations anyway, but we won’t feed so many useless bureaucrats who hate democracy along the way.

      100

      • #
        bobl

        This has been my opinion for a while that the “West” should withdraw from the UN except for the security council and set up another international body serving the interests of the world better. One with oversight by any/all member nations.

        40

  • #
    Zigmaster

    The willingness of global media and the noisy left turn a blind eye to China has allowed China to unfortunately control the global agenda. I fear that this would be 10 times worse if a Democrat representative was in the White House. The irony is that China don’t even pay for that influence. Their belts and roads program is secured against strategic assets, and the influence over the WHO enables them to get away with having a compliant servant assisting in making sure the virus to wreak maximum damage to the rest of the world whilst contributing only a fraction of the cost of running it . China controls the agenda of the U.N. on climate change whilst the benefit financially by having development status categorisation whilst being given a leave pass to emit at a rate that totally negates the futile efforts of the rest of the world to lower the temperature whilst destroying their economies. In fact it’s the weakening of global economies with diverting resources fo global warming causes from healthcare and other services that has meant the ability of the rest of the world to combat this virus has been severely compromised.Whilst I am not conspiratorial that the global warming scam combined with the virus release has been orchestrated to provide China with some level of global dominance that has indeed been the impact of the Chinese influence on those two global issues. It’s time for the world to fight back.

    160

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Let all billion unfriend me, watch me laugh.

    190

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      They won’t unfriend you, Roy. They need every friend they can get.

      The vast majority of them (perhaps 90% +) are victims of the Chinese Communist Party.

      The Chinese people have been disempowered, disarmed, and beaten down. But they are human beings and eventually they will rise up and destroy the Communists, as has been the historical case throughout the 20th Century. It will be no different in China.

      If I were a Chinese Communist I would be very afraid of what is going to happen.

      20

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        In Chinese culture
        There is the belief in the “Mandate Of Heaven”.
        Despite being a “Communist Party” the CCP relies on this for part of it’s legitimacy

        With this Corona virus Pandemic
        For the Chinese people Heaven has withdrawn it’s Mandate.
        There will be far more ‘exciting’ times in China
        Unfortunately.

        10

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Oh goody….but hang on lads…it cold have been worse.

    Mind you, the report mentions climate change as a “problem”…oh dear…..*sigh*

    If you took the modelling on face value, logically, every family should own a firearm & be trained to use it.

    Interestingly, I’ve also said the Cov19 is a “test run” for something nastier later on.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-29/military-leaders-warn-australia-prepare-for-worse-coronavirus/12193228

    “Think of coronavirus as a test run: Australian military leaders warn we must prepare for worse

    “As Australia was swept by panic buying and medical shortages this year, the scenes were eerily familiar for one of the country’s most senior military planners.

    “In a secret meeting only a year earlier, the Defence Department’s director of preparedness Cheryl Durrant and a group of Australian industry leaders had predicted a strikingly similar scenario.

    “”We predicted the unpredictable,” says Ms Durrant, who left the department in January.

    “”We knew the problems, we knew this might be coming, we knew that various things needed to be done.”

    “The ABC has obtained a confidential report prepared for Defence just a year before the COVID-19 outbreak, which provides a forecast of Australia’s vulnerabilities in a global crisis.

    “Ms Durrant is speaking out about the predictions after ending her 30-year Defence career because she believes it is her duty to convince Australia to prepare for an increasingly unstable world.

    “”I’ve looked at the global situation,” she says. “It’s no use festering in a bunker somewhere in Canberra — it’s a time of crisis.”

    “She says the risks to Australia are snowballing, with climate change, US-China tensions and the rise of nationalist governments among the key threats to global stability.

    “The report, which Ms Durrant commissioned to plan for the growing threats, lays out a timeline of how Australian essential services would collapse within just three months of a crisis worse than the COVID-19 threat, which would put a halt to global trade.

    “”If you think of the COVID crisis as a test run, it’s really a critical thing for us to learn from this,” she said.

    “”The lesson is expect the unexpected.”

    61

    • #
      Rupert Ashford

      Would be interesting to read the full report to see what else was cited as threats, and not the ABC pet threats like “Climate Change” and “Nationalist Governments”. If those are the main and only ones in the report it’s pretty useless. Expansionist, globalist, coercive, totalitarian governments, organizations and ideologies are and remain the main threats but it’s more fashionable to beat up Trump, Morrison, whites and Christians.

      80

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      Every family should own a firearm and be trained to use it.

      And every tiny bureaucrat with authoritarian tendencies should know this.

      A good education and willingness to engage in public discourse could be substituted, but
      forces in our society have subverted education and stifled discourse. This is always the way of tyranny.

      All government of any kind eventually resolves itself to force. From school truancy to armed robbery, family troubles
      to fraud, when the government reaches its end point you face men with guns. When you finally don’t want to stay indoors any more
      because the government lock down makes no sense any longer you face men with guns. Even on the beach.

      Governments always want to take guns away from people. This first. Then they strip the folks of other rights as well.

      Check the “rights” of the average Chinese citizen before you admire their system. By the way, is this blog available on the internet in CHina?

      10

  • #
    • #
      OriginalSteve

      It will be interesting to see what happens once the drum beat gets to a crescendo – what then?

      Military action if inspectors aren’t allowed into the lab? Like Iraq?

      Pearl Harbour was effectively brought upon by a reaction to an oil embargo on Japan.

      People need to tread carefully….

      25

      • #
        WXcycles

        Pearl Harbour was effectively brought upon by a reaction to an oil embargo on Japan.

        No. That’s the “Black Arm-Band” distorted view of what the West was doing, Steve.

        Pearl Harbor was effectively brought upon by a reaction to an oil embargo on Japan, which was finally imposed due to Japan’s invasion, occupation and barbarous oppression of Manchuria and a large portion of China.

        Something the CCP likes to forget, the West defended China’s people and defeated their enemy, at great risk and cost to us. It’s the CCP who “need to tread carefully”, as we’re not at fault here, we’re not over-stepping the mark, but the CCP repeatedly are over-stepping the mark.

        151

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Just so we are clear, I’m drawing parellels from history, not suggesting a course of action. We need to tread carefully as the last thing we want is another war.

        The Elite seem to favour war – it allows them to do all sorts of nasty stuff they cant do during peace time….

        24

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          If you have a stick but fear to use it, what’s the point? It’s as though you don’t have the stick.

          The point of MAD was that it WOULD be used. No point in huge stockpiles if you’re afraid to use it.

          To be afraid to stand up to the bully is to keep giving him your lunch money.

          Do not give in to threats or terrorism. Do not feed the crocodile. Sound familiar?

          50

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Well quick question – how many people understand scalar technology? The west has ignored such things but the Russians appear to have developed it. A good bok is Lt Tom Beardons “Fer de Lance”.

            The russians and chinese apparently have access to such tech. It can dud nukes. The russians have hypersonic missile tech.

            When deciding whether to tackle an enemy, realistic appraisal of thier capability is wise.

            10

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        O S have you been watching really old 1930’s
        Japanese propaganda movies ?

        Not very informative or even useful.

        12

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        [Snip repeat]

        01

    • #
      el gordo

      We have five eyes …

      ‘However, an exclusive investigation by The Daily Telegraph has revealed Five Eyes intelligence agencies of Australia, Canada, NZ, UK and US, are looking closely at the work of Shi and a senior scientist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Peng Zhou. There is a direct Australian link to the researcher’s work, with the pair having previously conducted bat research in a Geelong CSIRO lab, The Daily Telegraph uncovered.’

      61

  • #
    nb

    Our communist-sympathising media like authoritarian [CCP control].
    Let’s have an investigation into fentanyl, as well as the virus willingly exported from Wuhan.
    Might as well let China account for the untimely deaths of 100 million of its own people too.

    [Edited for accuracy and Section 18C. Please keep eye on the real target – Jo.]

    10

  • #
  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Even the Age is awake to China
    And it’s Communist Party dictatorship !
    Now that is a pleasant surprise !
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/we-can-t-return-to-business-as-usual-with-china-20200428-p54nty.html

    62

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Is Chicago planning a mass vaccination campaign?

    This video clip seems it indicate it is.

    Seems it was *planned* all along….?

    Chicago is a leftist stronghold.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C2b-G9anJw

    72

    • #
      MP

      Very telling, but stating the obvious. The world has planned a mass, mandatory Vax campaign, they always had the solution.
      But first we must collapse society’s for mayhem to ensure, watch the supply chain.

      44

  • #
    PeterS

    When one deals with a dishonest, immoral and secretive government then expect things to go pear shaped. The CCP needs to be dragged out of their isolation if they want to trade with anyone else. We all live on the same planet so we must all work together as best we can, in spite of our differences. The alternative is a planet wide destruction of all of mankind by any number of means. I don’t have the wisdom to know the actual solution but I would have thought the UN would be involved. Yes, I know that was sarcasm. Some suggest the G20. Hmmm. Whatever the answer is, we need to tread carefully as the CCP is like a dangerous and angry tiger. We can’t kill it for obvious reasons. We can’t cage it for the same reasons. So, we need to calm it down and re-train it. I doubt that will be possible but we must at least try. Trump is our best trainer, but then again there are many who are desperately trying to bring him down through undemocratic means. Goes to show whose side those Trump haters are on. As such those Trump haters under the current circumstances ought to be treated as trait0rs.

    141

    • #
      Slithers

      A cornered animal is a dangerous animal. Appeasement as already pointed out won’t work, The quid pro quo approach would seem to be indicated. China plays hard ball we play hard ball back. We could regain control of the Darwin harbor for instance, we could negate the idea of Belt and Road by refusing any transfer of funds derived from Australian food production into Yuan.
      It would be good policy to pint out these sort of moves publicly so that China gets to understand the implications of their continual obstructive behavior.

      20

  • #
    Michael Hammer

    The phrase “methinks he doth protest too much” springs irrevocably to mind. If they have nothing to hide one would think they would welcome an investigation to clear their name. Covid19 has killed thousands of people and crippled economies around the world. To argue against investigating the cause is like insisting one should not investigate Chernobyl or 3 mile island – in fact worse because this is far larger than Chernobyl. The purpose of an investigation is to determine what happened so as to try to ensure it cant happen again.

    So China says it won’t buy our coal or our meat and chinese citizens wont want to visit our country or go to our universities. OK; is China planning to give up on coal usage (the greens would be delighted), or plan to give up eating meat and getting a tertiary education? Lets be realistic, China and chinese are not doing these things to financially support Australia, they are the ultimate economic opportunists. They are doing these things because it is in their financial and development interest to do so. If they stop they are “cutting off their nose to spite their face”. We could just as well say we will stop buying all the chinese made goods which would plunge China into a massive recession.

    Seems to me the greater risk is that covid19 has shown us the huge risk in outsourcing all our manufacturing. Maybe its time to be more self reliant even if that means goods will get more expensive. At least it will create more skilled and worthwhile jobs in this and other western countries, make our economy more secure and improve our independence. Yes at the cost of some affluence but maybe that’s a worthwhile price. I hear calls for this and I would certainly add my voice to such an action. China may be a large populous nation with a strong military but it is particularly vulnerable is this regard and I suspect its what they are really scared about. A finding that China contributed to the crisis or worse; somehow contributed directly to the release of the virus, might well be the trigger that drives such a trend.

    Trouble is, this is exactly how wars can start. It would have to start with some sort of tariff protection and it is inevitable the ccp at least would see such a trend as an economic attack on China.

    90

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The Chinese economy grew to what it is today
      Through trade with the world.
      Most western countries buy and sell with China
      But those same Western Countries
      Ourselves, the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU,
      Have all been damaged by this CCP virus.
      We all have a stake in this.
      And all of these nations should stick together
      In demanding a free international enquiry.

      50

    • #
      WXcycles

      Seems to me the greater risk is that covid19 has shown us the huge risk in outsourcing all our manufacturing. Maybe its time to be more self reliant even if that means goods will get more expensive. At least it will create more skilled and worthwhile jobs in this and other western countries, make our economy more secure and improve our independence. Yes at the cost of some affluence but maybe that’s a worthwhile price.

      Agree, we act excessively when we can excessively afford to act foolishly.

      I would rather Australian inflation was due to the rebuilding of our manufacturing base and it passing on real costs of production to consumers, than due to money printing supporting a country without real jobs and a manufacturing base, fed by our own resources base.

      And one of the Sovereign production capacities we need to reclaim right now (and should already have) are a few new factories which licence-build all of the vital components needed to construct and supply the ADF with many hundreds of advanced medium and long-range cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles, and more modern guided glide weapons than you can shake a stick at, plus a whole bunch of long-range naval weapons to go along with that. At least then we’re not relying on US factories to be able to build and deliver priority munitions to ADF in the time frame we need them, and our border lines would not be backed-up with mostly low credibility hot air. Same if we want S.E.A. to take us seriously when they’re facing China’s war hardware and belligerence directly.

      140

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I’m astounded. Absolutely astounded.

        After all the other stuff you’ve written, for the second time in a week I find your comment good and am in agreement.

        But this one, if I can copy The Captain.

        Is Brilliant.

        KK

        41

      • #
        Raving

        You could go the Nimrod route. Strong tradition in refits.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Nimrod

        Canada announced it would replace it’s supply ships in 2004.

        According to the Wiki, construction started this January. Projected delivery in 2023 and 2025

        Slow but steady

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecteur-class_auxiliary_vessel

        10

      • #
        JanEarth

        WX cycles

        And invest in uranium enrichment so that we can build our own nukes…Can’t rely on the Yanks, hell Trump tried to stab us in the back during the trade war recently so we need to be prepared

        Once we have nukes that’s it no country in its right mind would attack us. that would be MAD.

        10

        • #
          WXcycles

          I’d settle for a squadron of B-21 and a conventional long-range stealthy cruise missile instead.

          20

          • #
            sophocles

            B21 – an airborne truck for lots and lots and lots of short range cruise missiles. We’ve all seen that shape somewhere before, too 😀

            00

        • #
          sophocles

          Don’t worry about nukes until you’ve got your cities underground — before the sun pops its cork again. It does it every 12,000 years …

          00

          • #
            Raving

            Shall roll up my sleeves and get more indirect sunlight. Moving into spring here and extra light will do me good. Thanks for bringing the Vitamin D thing to my attention

            00

            • #
              sophocles

              Good on you.
              No thanks necessary: I almost literally tripped over the research about 5 nearly 6 years ago and I’ve been digging into it ever since. I got started on myself about a few months after my first collision with it and am now in my fifth year of it. The total absence of colds and similar illnesses has been wonderful.

              I have a totally unfamiliar with Canadian conditions. You will have to sort out your source(s) of Vit D3 for yourself, I can’t help there. If you rely on tablet supplements, take Vit D3 with vitamin K2. Vits D and K2 act as a team.

              Maybe talk with your doctor, carefully.

              All the best with it and I hope it’s successful for you.

              00

              • #
                Raving

                I hate talking to dermatologists now. Too many years of frustration. Too much, “UV is good for me” :/

                Too many super expensive and hyped biologics with vested interests

                My trust has worn thin.
                Sunlight I know. Can use a lot more of it without tanning

                00

  • #
    Maptram

    I recall reading a few weeks ago, that before the corona virus became a worldwide pandemic, or even an issue in China, China was quietly buying up tonnes of medical stuff such as face masks from places like Australia and Canada, the implication being that China knew about the virus before it was revealed to the world. I remember the story each time I read news stories about how good China is, shipping out to the world all the medical supplies to help combat the virus.

    141

  • #
    tom0mason

    Maybe the Westernized nations, though official Government statements and through their broadcast media, should band together to make sure that the people of China understand that ‘The Government of China’ has been at fault here, and emphasise that they have lost face in the eyes of the world.

    However this has big problems in that the lefty media would not fully comply.

    80

  • #
    WXcycles

    Top 10 fastest growth of daily active cases:

    New Cases | Country
    25,409 … USA
    6,411 … Russia
    6,398 … Brazil
    3,996 … UK
    2,706 … Spain
    2,638 … France
    2,491 … Peru
    2,392 … Turkey
    2,091 … Italy
    1,873 … India

    Countries with over 1,000 active cases, sorted by daily spreading percent:

    % New v Active | Country | Active Cases | New Cases
    18.1 … Brazil … 35,292 … 6,398
    17.0 … Mexico … 5,009 … 852
    15.8 … Nigeria … 1,233 … 195
    11.8 … Peru … 21,157 … 2,491
    9.1 … Belarus … 10,136 … 919
    8.9 … Bangladesh … 6,168 … 549
    8.6 … Kazakhstan … 2,228 … 192
    8.6 … Chile … 6,448 … 552
    8.5 … Algeria … 1,561 … 132
    8.3 … India … 22,569 … 1,873
    8.2 … Ghana … 1,467 … 121
    8.1 … Afghanistan … 1,542 … 125
    8.0 … Colombia … 4,412 … 352
    7.8 … Iran … 14,268 … 1,112
    7.7 … Egypt … 3,379 … 260
    7.6 … Russia … 84,235 … 6,411
    7.4 … Saudi Arabia … 17,141 … 1,266 (Arabs states are all failing to halt it)
    7.2 … South Africa … 2,830 … 203
    6.8 … Kuwait … 2,241 … 152
    6.7 … Denmark … 2,296 … 153
    6.3 … Pakistan … 11,067 … 697
    6.3 … Qatar … 10,777 … 677
    6.1 … Moldova … 2,560 … 157
    5.9 … UAE … 9,110 … 541
    5.9 … Bahrain … 1,493 … 88
    5.5 … Indonesia … 7,484 … 415
    5.5 … Canada … 27,977 … 1,526
    4.9 … Ukraine … 8,179 … 401
    4.7 … Oman … 1,757 … 82
    4.7 … Ecuador … 21,830 … 1,018
    4.5 … Argentina … 2,758 … 124
    4.5 … Panama … 5,399 … 242
    4.3 … Sweden … 16,261 … 695
    4.0 … Morocco … 3,309 … 132
    3.8 … Singapore … 13,809 … 528
    3.8 … Austria … 2,208 … 83
    3.7 … Romania … 7,549 … 277
    3.6 … Hungary … 1,842 … 66
    3.5 … Poland … 8,967 … 316
    3.3 … Turkey … 72,852 … 2,392
    3.2 … Bulgaria … 1,119 … 36
    3.2 … Spain … 84,403 … 2,706
    3.2 … Germany … 36,198 … 1,154
    3.1 … Serbia … 7,069 … 222
    3.0 … USA … 834,261 … 25,409
    2.9 … UK … 139,123 … 3,996
    2.8 … Philippines … 6,453 … 181
    2.8 … France … 95,365 … 2,638
    2.6 … Finland … 1,741 … 45
    2.5 … Dominican Republic … 4,965 … 123
    2.4 … Ireland … 9,485 … 229
    2.2 … Belgium … 29,060 … 647
    2.2 … Israel … 7,772 … 173
    2.0 … Switzerland … 4,965 … 100
    2.0 … Italy … 105,205 … 2,091
    1.8 … Malaysia … 1,719 … 31
    1.8 … Australia … 1,024 … 18
    1.7 … Greece … 1,851 … 32
    1.4 … Czechia … 4,329 … 59
    1.3 … Portugal … 21,985 … 295
    1.1 … Japan … 11,443 … 122
    0.9 … Estonia … 1,370 … 13
    0.8 … S. Korea … 1,654 … 14
    0.8 … Norway … 7,422 … 61
    0.5 … Slovenia … 1,099 … 6
    0.5 … Netherlands … 33,600 … 171
    % New v Active | Country | Active Cases | New Cases

    Countries with more than 200 total deaths, more than 2.5% died, sorted by percentage of total cases died so far.

    % Died | Country | Total Deaths | New Deaths
    15.49 … Belgium … 7,331 … 124
    14.26 … France … 23,660 … 367
    13.58 … Italy … 27,359 … 382
    13.45 … UK … 21,678 … 586
    12.00 … Sweden … 2,355 … 81
    11.98 … Algeria … 437 … 5
    11.89 … Netherlands … 4,566 … 48
    10.99 … Hungary … 291 … 11
    10.26 … Spain … 23,822 … 301
    9.23 … Mexico … 1,434 … 83
    8.13 … Indonesia … 773 … 8
    7.12 … Egypt … 359 … 22
    6.95 … Brazil … 5,063 … 520
    6.66 … Philippines … 530 … 19
    6.35 … Iran … 5,877 … 71
    5.83 … Ireland … 1,159 … 57
    5.81 … Switzerland … 1699 … 34
    5.72 … USA … 59,266 … 2,470
    5.72 … Canada … 2,859 … 152
    5.71 … Romania … 663 … 22
    5.59 … China … 4,633 … 0
    5.02 … Argentina … 207 … 10
    4.90 … Denmark … 434 … 7
    4.88 … Poland … 596 … 34
    4.52 … Colombia … 269 … 16
    4.46 … Dominican Republic … 286 … 4
    3.95 … Germany … 6,314 … 188
    3.90 … Portugal … 948 … 20
    3.71 … Austria … 569 … 20
    3.59 … Ecuador … 871 … 208
    3.22 … India … 1,008 … 69
    3.03 … Czechia … 227 … 4
    2.87 … Japan … 394 … 9
    2.74 … Peru … 854 … 72
    2.69 … Norway … 206 … 1
    2.61 … Turkey … 2,992 … 92
    2.54 … Ukraine … 239 … 19
    % Died | Country | Total Deaths | New Deaths

    % New v Active | Country | Active Cases | New Cases
    1.8 … Australia … 1,024 … 18

    % Died | Country | Total Deaths | New Deaths
    1.31 … Australia … 88 … 5

    Oz recoveries slowed to just 40 yesterday but they usually speed up towards the end of the working week.

    122

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Thanks again WXCycles.
      Each day these statistics illustrate the reason why
      An independent investigation is needed.

      PS : Such a pity that Sweden with it’s curious
      ‘Do very little’ strategy now has 16,261 cases and 695 new cases.
      And now 2355 dead from CCP COVID 19
      With 81 people dying there yesterday
      And there are only 10 million Swedes

      Australia’s doing so much better with a total of 88 people dead and only 5 yesterday
      Australia has 24 million people
      I wonder how it did so much better than Sweden ?
      Sarc !.

      62

      • #
        WXcycles

        What amazes me is how poorly Canada’s still doing at limiting the spread and winding it down, their mix of prevailing conditions allowed it to spiral out of control in a way they couldn’t stop. We’ll need to get to the bottom of what happened there too.

        90

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          A confederation with no national strategy ?
          Raving will be better informed.

          20

        • #
          Raving

          It sure looks as if we are doing badly but there are clear reasons when looking at the cases.

          In part our statistics seem honest. Not hiding behind unreported and untested deaths much. Things are transparent here. They claim that in Belgium too.

          Beyond that, most of the statistics are driven by the spread of infections in nursing homes and loads of winter travel abroad, the middle east, europe, the US, cruise ships and some from asia

          The nursing home infections spreadlike wildfire. They are predicting up to a 1,000+ more deaths within a week across Canada. From looking at reports in other countries the situation in nursing homes is similar. Their infections and deaths appear to go unreported.. Hard to tell

          Community spread is going on here too. Not much but worrisome. At least it will encourage keeping the lid on ‘stay at home’ in ontario for a few weeks.

          Who would have imagined our conservative leader would turn out to be mild and gentle progressive. It’s conservative politics at it’s best!

          Ford is still sticking to no carbon tax. I think Ford is right. Ontarians are already paying a big price to subsidize uneeded wind and solar energy in a predominantly nuclear+hydro generation network

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-coronavirus-tuesday-ontario-1.5547535

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          • #
            WXcycles

            Thanks Raving, makes more sense. Can’t understand how so many cases got into the Aged Care homes though, fortunately that was something Australia tried hard to avoid from the beginning. Looks like this was an area of major stuff-up in the UK, France and Spain as well.

            20

            • #
              Raving

              How? Probably low paid, hard working healthcare workers who moonlight at multiple locations. Perchance a few of them saved enough to have a bit of a winter holiday in some ‘hot spot’.

              The only defense for these homes seems to be banning visitors from the front door. Those visitors were probably the least likely path of infection.

              They have called in the army here now to care for the residents in support of the sickness decimated staff. Little PPG available for infection control STILL

              Ontario also confirmed outbreaks in four additional long-term care facilities Public health officials are now monitoring outbreaks in 154 long-term care homes, where 705 residents have died of COVID-linked illness and another 2,491 have been infected by the novel coronavirus.

              There are roughly 700 longterm care homes in province. So perhaps 546 locations remain uninfected. Those uninfected locations become fewer each day. Compromised locations could grow to 3 times the number of current facilities

              30

              • #
                sophocles

                The nursing home infections spreadlike wildfire. They are predicting up to a 1,000+ more deaths within a week across Canada. From looking at reports in other countries the situation in nursing homes is similar. Their infections and deaths appear to go unreported..

                Your state and federal governments should be taken out and shot, Raving. Research published back in 2011 shows the dereliction of the politicians and the state/federal health departments. Compare with Japan’s figures, Japan funded the research and it looks as though they followed it.

                Here’s the paper name and it’s URL:
                Youseff et al 2011: “Vitamin D deficiency: Implications for acute
                care in the elderly and in patients with chronic illness”

                https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1447-0594.2011.00716.x

                Read it first and you will see what I mean.

                10

        • #
          Richard Ilfeld

          A lot of travel to and from the Caribbean islands, and a too porous border with the US is
          likely what happened to Canada.

          20

      • #
        bobl

        Fer goodness sakes…. max temp Australia ~20-27C Max Sweden 7C draw a conclusion. This is why we’ve been successful – that and being an island nation.

        Sweden wont get better until Max T approaches 15C, at 7C there is little UV sterilization and microdroplet transmission is still in play

        11

    • #
      RickWill

      In the last three weeks, the US CV19 death toll has exceeded the annual road toll. Still no indication that there is a reduction in the number of cases. Seems daily death toll will sit around 2000 for the next month.

      In the last five days, the Swedish CV19 death toll has exceeded the annual road toll. If anything, there is a slight increase in cases. Daily death toll about 80 and it will increase slightly for the next month and probably beyond.

      40

      • #
        WXcycles

        Good points. The US infection is still growing at a furious pace which is building up numbers so quickly each day they can’t grow capacity to process them as fast as the virus can grow the infection scale. Th result is massive weekly noise swings in the US data, so that’s making it clear they can no longer process the disease’s growth quickly enough. For example:

        USA Daily New Cases:

        April 21st 26,084 new … Tuesday
        April 22nd 30,156 new … Wednesday
        April 23rd 31,889 new … Thursday
        April 24th 38,958 new … Friday
        April 25th 35,419 new … Saturday
        April 26th 26,509 new … Sunday
        April 27th 23,196 new … Monday (42% lower than the total on Friday)
        April 28th 25,409 new … Tuesday (still not much catching up … just like last week)

        Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

        In reality the new symptomatic cases are almost certainly above 35,000 per day right now, possibly above 45,000 per day. But the ability to test for that many cases each day is a limitation that we see as the reported data totals. The system is running on empty here, it could not keep up last week so what hope does it have during this week of producing representative reporting of the infection’s real scale and trends?

        The result is an apparent topping-out of the reported figures, but within a very noisy oscillating range, but as US new cases data on April 24th indicated, the underlying new-cases can be much larger than the local US labs within the most infected areas have a capacity to confirm and accurately report. That is not a good sign.

        If .gov needs to make a re-opening decision this week, but they don’t understand that part of the US data reporting already lost it’s capacity to accurately track and report the spreading of symptomatic cases in a meaningful timely way during past week, some very bad decisions will be made.

        A Governor and advisers think they see a “Summer-effect” emerging of slowly ameliorating totals so they permit a partial re-opening, but into a scale of infection that’s already 50% larger than they thought, and is rapidly accelerating past all capacity to track it, within more localized highly-infected areas.

        So they don’t find out that something’s very wrong until a great excess of bodies shows up, about 2 to 3 weeks after re-opening, because the new cases data was not getting any higher, it was just choppy and range bound, but not getting higher.

        And there is also a large and growing time-lag for the detection and reporting of new deaths, so they still don’t find out about the growing wave of excess deaths, nor realize they made a decision to partially reopen, based on unrepresentative data, until about ~4 weeks later when the very disproportionate and sharply growing deaths data finally shows up within the daily stats.

        At which point the deaths peak 3 to 4 weeks after that, at the end of June and into the first half of July.

        This is just a ‘what-if‘ speculation — it may occur this way, it may not, but I think .gov has to make sure it doesn’t occur that way.

        I would be immediately finding out the sources of the high-amplitude noise within the US new cases data, as given above, and how it applies to each US state, plus keeping a close daily track of time-lags within both the new-cases data, and the new-death data and processing and reporting lags.

        Of course if they were not seeking to re-open into a global pandemic of a novel virus that is known to kill 1 in 3 in the USA, before it peaks and the active cases drop down the other side of the bell-curve, this would not be just like a fatalistic game of Russian-Roulette.

        90

  • #
    MP

    Mod.

    Please release me let me go. 9.5.1.1

    03

  • #
    Serge Wright

    “He said Chinese people were upset with Australia and if the trend continued they could decide not to come as tourists or students, and not eat Australian beef or drink Australian wine.”

    It’s more likely that the majority of Chinese people are upset with his government for covering up the outbreak and support our call for an independent inquiry.

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    • #
      el gordo

      Not sure what they know, the masses willingly sacrificed personal freedom for material security and have been severely brainwashed. Here is Beijing’s view of the Wuhan Institute conspiracy theories.

      https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202004/29/WS5ea87348a310a8b2411526f7.html

      20

    • #
      sophocles

      Sucked in Serge.

      Can’t you recognize propaganda?

      21

      • #
        el gordo

        Our ABC is good at propaganda, its not always easy to separate fact from fake.

        Anyway, I would like to nominate Mr Long as China’s new ambassador to Oz.

        https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/china-hijacks-health-ministers-press-conference/news-story/b8380b08143bf050e6a8adc66454f2d4

        20

        • #
          Serge Wright

          You say our ABC is good at propaganda, but I think it’s more accurate to say that they are good at rolling out copious amounts of propaganda. The more recent ABC “Pell” propaganda was so bad it was beyond cringeworthy watching them defend the indefenseable and this even exceeded the very obvious bias in their constant claims that they provide a balanced view. The thing about ABC propaganda is that only the loony left believe that stuff because they are loony enough to believe anything the ABC publishes, no matter how absurd.

          My favourite loony left ABC moment was when Andrew Bolt asked their science presenter if sea levels could actually rise 100m this century.
          https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/sea-level-rises-down-30-per-cent-still-waiting-for-robyn-williams-100-metres/news-story/a0b89179131de037c14983e219fac089

          IMO – Only one thing can beat this except the hard left desciples who spent the next ten years defending the claim. 🙂

          50

          • #
            Serp

            Yep, sea level rise is the easiest disproved of the myriad junk allegations made by warmists and should be the first thread pulled to unravel their tangle of lies.

            00

          • #

            Bolt keeps bringing this up despite the transcript showing that the context was Williams responding to Bolt’s suggestion of 100m as being “possible but…”. The but includes with a radical accelleration of melt plus surge not levels (see if you can find the word “levels”)

            Robyn Williams: Well, whether you take the surge or whether you take the actual average rise are different things.

            Andrew Bolt: I ask you, Robyn, 100 metres in the next century…do you really think that?

            Robyn Williams: It is possible, yes. The increase of melting that they’ve noticed in Greenland and the amount that we’ve seen from the western part of Antarctica, if those increases of three times the expected rate continue, it will be huge, but the question…

            00

      • #
        el gordo

        Beijing’s propaganda is unbelievable.

        ‘Predicting the Prime Minister’s call for an independent inquiry would fail, the People’s Daily said France and the United Kingdom would reject it.

        “This is a slap on the face which has come quickly,” it warned.

        State-run newspaper Global Times also lashed out in a piece headlined: Morrison’s adventurism could damage China-Australia relations beyond repair.

        “The Morrison Administration is spearheading this malicious campaign to frame and incriminate China with groundless conjecture and outlandish fabrications,” an editorial states.’

        NZ Herald

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        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Those CCP media outlets have to try and defend the infensible
          With lies & propaganda.
          We are back to the old days
          The 1960’s with China’s CCP.
          But the Chinese people have changed.
          And the degree of connection
          Between the Chinese people
          And the rest of the world
          Has increased enormously.

          And this proposed investigation thus
          Strikes at the heart of the CCP regime

          10

  • #
    TdeF

    Say it is proven the Wuhan Flu was the same virus created by the Wuhan laboratories and described in their publication. It fits perfectly. Say it is proven that the virus escaped, which looks pretty obvious. Who needs an inquiry to know all this.

    And so what? People want to sue China in group actions. Countries want compensation. People want revenge. Tough. They will get exactly nothing.

    And it’s unfair. Wrong.

    So what will they do? Nothing. The idea that there is an enforceable body of ‘International Law’ is absurd. Like the Paris Treaty. China just ignores it. So do most. And the Human Rights Commissions are a travesty.

    The only concrete things which will come out of this are that

    WHO should not be a political body, part of the UN. It gets enough money to be independent of governments.

    We need to stop viruses, bacteria, pests, fungi, everything at our borders. We should not have to regularly innoculate everyone in
    Australia against what tourists bring in every year.

    We should agitate against the live bat, pangolin trade. Dead bats are not carriers. The virus dies quickly too.

    and we should agree that all countries need to reinstitute checking of innoculations at the border. The grab for tourist cash has created a world ripe for pandemics of all sorts.

    While spending $2Trillion a year on trying to control the many climates of the world and CO2 levels, both abject failures, we could spend a tiny fraction of that stopping pandemics at our doorstep.

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    • #
      Ross

      Essentially agree with you TdeF but the one factor that has to be added to mix is what research did the US $3.8 million (at least –there could have been more) that Fauci gave the Wuhan Lab, pay for? He gave the money or outsourced work after research being done in the US was stopped by Homeland Security, as they deemed it to be too risky.

      If anything is ever found out about the source, I would not be surprised to hear there was a lot of butt covering going on and it did not involve China alone.

      BTW. I think the wet market is part of the cover story. It had nothing to do with it –it does not make sense. These markets have been around for decades –if they were a health hazard there would have many health related issues from them over the years and the Chinese people would have avoided them. Similarly if you try to narrow the blame down to bat soup.

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      • #
        TdeF

        We have had a series of Bat viruses over the years, ultimately most of them. SARS, MERS, Hendra and many more. About ten of them, all disastrous.

        This one was not declared a pandemic immediately by WHO. In fact the new President actually told the world it was not infective human to human! And told them also there was no need to close borders. And the Chinese travelled overseas in their hundreds of thousands in this period. That is entirely why so many have died.

        We would have had this in 2003 otherwise.

        40

        • #
          Ross

          I’m not suggesting is not a bat related virus. I just think it was an accident at the lab and the wet markets had nothing to do it.

          10

          • #
            TdeF

            Understood. However one way it could enter the bat markets is that laboratory people sold laboratory bats to the wet market. I mean, why destroy a perfectly good bat when you can get so much for it in the nearby market? That sort of opportunism is rife in poor countries.

            10

      • #
        DOC

        Frankly, the source of the virus from Wuhan is not the non-China world problem.

        All the problems from this virus, outside China, come from China’s range of reactions to it.
        It looked to control the virus within its own borders, doing nothing to stop its spread beyond those borders. Indeed, that lack of action seemed aimed at spreading the virus worldwide via its travellers, making loud complaints and threatening economic retaliation if those effected nations attempted to close off their borders.

        IMO, that’s the biggest question the world has to confront China about. Who cares at this stage where the virus came from in Wuhan? Everyone should demand an explanation from China about what it tried to do by not curtailing the export of the virus when it had an epidemic on its hands.

        As far as getting up China’s nose by questioning it, fearful lest there be economic retaliation
        against the rest of the world for demanding answers, I would suggest we have already seen
        that China, ie the CCP and Xi, is nobody’s friend. This and its island-building show what the people of the CCP intend for our region.

        What worse could it do than destroy the economy of the world, as it has already done? If the world talks as one and demands answers, China becomes the one with a big problem. It must already be realising it has a problem of its own making from what it has done to the economies it trades with. The world does to China as China has already done to the world ie massively reduces trade with it further. Then, the CCP are the ones with the real problems with its huge number of people.

        The tables must be turned! A bully is only scared of its targets standing up against it; it
        will have no respect for weakness. The game now has to be played; pike out, China wins the
        whole box and dice. That’s a future; repeated menaces against any nation so weak as to refuse to
        stand its ground. We would then be treated as well as the Chinese people with all their ‘freedoms’! No way!

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  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Time for Australia to declare the Chinese Ambassador to Australia
    “Persona Non Gratia”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-29/china-australia-coronavirus-spat-approaches-farce/12196804

    If the ABC thinks the ambassador has stuffed up
    It must be a big stuff up.

    100

    • #
      sophocles

      Recall the Australian Ambassador first and as soon as the embassy is back home, then declare the Chinese embassy PNG.

      00

  • #

    Time to wind up the UN. Its a leftist organisation that is the creature of despotic regimes and dictators. What is the value for Australia in the UN?

    The UN has proven time and again to be inept and ineffectual anyway.

    Better to save the money and move on…

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Totally agree.

      UNEXIT UNEXIT.

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      • #
        tom0mason

        Kalm Keith,

        UNEXIT UNEXIT

        Yes, they are the wannabe world government in waiting, an additional costly level of bureaucratic incompetence and corruption for all. A malevolent bureaucracy waiting to dictate, to inflict onerous taxation, legislation and mandates on all.

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  • #
    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Brilliant and his foresight is amazing.

      20

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      George has addressed some of my earlier observations.

      Kalm Keith
      March 24, 2020 at 4:59 am
      I like the direction of your comments Stephen.

      Wish there was an alternative to the term “herd immunity” as it seems to invoke aggro and or extension/interpretation of the meaning.

      As a child I experienced contact with nature and experienced the Vomits, the Runs and pimples, along with grazed knees and elbows, bee stings and bully ant bites.

      My imagination gives me a vision of an immune system that is, as a result of these adventures, more likely to cope with strange new challenges than it otherwise might have been.

      Meanwhile in the modern pure pristine world we have children whose systems have been so protected that they can’t even eat peanuts without a violent reaction.

      The world is a complicated place and is made more so by the intervention of politicians following the guide of university graduates with PhDs in Science Communication rather than science itself.

      We have too many layers of confusion in an already confused world. Let’s keep it simple and Honest.

      KK

      Question. Does George’s idea of building generalised immunity through exposure to many “adventures” have any validity.
      So, rephrasing that, is it better to face CV19 with a fresh immune system or one that has faced and dealt with many challenges?

      20

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Wish there was an alternative to the term “herd immunity” as it seems to invoke aggro and or extension/interpretation of the meaning.

        As an alternative, perhaps convalescent blood plasma: Administering massive/large amounts of antibodies from the blood plasma of recovered corona victims to help new victims meets your very reasonable requirement?
        🙂

        10

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          Striking similarity to herd immunity.

          From: https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-get-convalescent-plasma-to-covid-19-patients/

          “This treatment is known as convalescent plasma therapy, and it’s an old solution; doctors used it to help treat measles patients before a vaccine was developed and it has been used on Ebola, SARS, and MERS patients, as well as during the 1918 pandemic flu.

          10

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            100% natural. CP could help overcome fear of herd immunity and human powered antibodies. Guess we need to wait and see.

            10

          • #

            Environment Skeptic, blood plasma is a good plan. I wrote about attempts to get a synthetic version of this working on April 2. Because there just aren’t enough healthy survivors to donate enough blood yet, we need larger scale production. There are naturally risks with donated plasma too.


            Coronavirus treatment — antibodies that work in 20 minutes could give protection for 8 weeks

            It has nothing to do with herd immunity. Just so you know.

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            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              Yes i know, however, the idea that the treatment blood plasma is produced by a healthy herd of plasma donators is inspiring and proof that when vaccines fail, there are seemingly plenty of antibody donors out there to help those vulnerable get a welcome boost to help their own immunity along. It’s elegant.

              20

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Convalescent blood plasma fulfills the subjective requirement of being another way or step that can be used to better understand herd immunity and antibodies in general.

                The two are like a dynamic duo, charged with possibilities.

                I think we need to hear more often about medical advances like the ones you have also written about. There are also a lot of very promising advances with respect to up-regulating the immune system which are very, very exciting.

                20

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Connect the dots, KK.

        “My parents are idiots.”

        Count the deaths. Add the morbidity.

        Hopefully, George is not one of your parents:

        https://blogs.plos.org/dnascience/2015/02/05/remembering-pre-vaccine-era-diseases-childhood/

        00

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Like a lot of what you write, disconnected and obscure: why do you want to paint yourself as an exponential conclusion jumper/fabricator?

          You seem to have jumped to some conclusion that I am against vaccination. No,

          Thirdly, George Carlin was not my father, even when he was alive in 2008 when he made that video.

          And firstly,

          “Count the deaths. Add the morbidity”

          The first step in science and statistics is to very clearly detail what’s happening. If you are quoting “CV19 Statistics” at me you should have a think about that.

          Could you put up statistics from just two countries which are comparable because they have been collected in exactly the same manner. No. That’s not possible.

          Just because Peter Fitzroy and Bill in Oz agree with you on many occasions does not validate the detail.

          I’ve forgotten point 4.

          00

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Projecting much, KK?

            I hadn’t noticed any science in your comment. I still don’t.

            Doing nothing is not an option.

            Let me spell it out for you since you seem to have a comprehension problem.

            The diseases of childhood in your day (and mine) had appalling morbidity figures associated with them. You seem to have forgotten that. They led to lives of pain and suffering. Lives unproductive. And, lives that required large amounts of family and community care. Lives that could have been vastly different.

            Your “modern pure pristine world” is a figment of your imagining.

            A healthier world, yes. A safer world, yes. A wealthier world, yes. Much of that has do do with the move away from the disease riddled environment in which you and I were raised.

            You want stats on that? Then look them up. Here’s the write-up:

            https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/a-history-of-medicine/medical-changes-from-1945/

            00

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              A non response from Sam,

              “The diseases of childhood in your day (and mine) had appalling morbidity figures associated with them. You seem to have forgotten that. They led to lives of pain and suffering. Lives unproductive. And, lives that required large amounts of family and community care. Lives that could have been vastly different.”

              Again, more unfounded projections.

              You have obviously ignored my posts on the horrors of Polio and deliberately misconnect my question on generalised immunity with the obvious major pandemics of the day.

              People may get tired of reading ” give me a link” or being asked at MacVs, “would you like stats with that”.

              Even on this blog I’m told that I must believe in skating rinks crammed with CV19 dead because normal holding areas are full.

              And then you are called all sorts of names, the M word, the K word because you can see the same leadership at work that brought Australia the renewables pseuduelectricity and French nonsubmarine submarines.

              As for this wonderful blog; sometimes when you embrace something too closely you can miss out on the big picture.

              Real science never goes away.
              It’s just that sometimes it gets pushed into the background.

              KK

              11

  • #
    Maptram

    A number of “celebrities” that take aim at President Trump’s sarcasm defense are actors. Of course they would criticize President Trump at every opportunity. But when they criticize him, are they playing a role or being themselves.

    https://au.yahoo.com/news/celebrities-donald-trumps-sarcasm-defense-083922430.html

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    • #
      TdeF

      It had to happen. A pack of reporters every night with Gotcha questions, leading questions, non sequiturs, grandstanding speeches and even direct abuse, just waiting for him to bite.

      Then take any response literally and paint the President as a madman.

      Two days ago he was asked about passing the toll in the Vietnam war, as if he was personally responsible and it was his decision. And he is asked wrong questions when you would have to think the reporter knew the truth. I have no idea why he puts up with it and two nights ago he refused to take questions, stating that it was a waste of time. He’s right. It’s not about the corona virus, it’s a pack attack on the President. And don’t Hollywood love it.

      100

    • #
      toorightmate

      The trusty Babylon Bee reports that Trump entered a press conference and said “Good morning”.
      Twelve news outlets immediately took umbrage at this outlandish and contentious statement by the president.

      100

  • #
    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    I love the Chinese. I always will, but their government stinks!

    70

    • #
      TdeF

      And they would agree. That’s the problem in all military dictatorships.

      30

    • #
      JanEarth

      I love the Chinese. I always will, but their government stinks!

      hear hear… let’s support them to release their shackles.

      20

  • #
    Raving

    Read a report (? cannot find it) suggesting covid19 came from raccoon dogs. Consider the Dutch covid19 mink infections and this

    A U.S. report in 2010 said 30million mink, 25million foxes and 15million raccoon dogs were set to be slaughtered for fashion in China that year – up 15million on the year before.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2867219/Inside-Chinese-fur-farms-breed-raccoon-dogs-tiny-cages-skin-alive-make-luxury-coats-sold-West.html

    “Animals in Chinese markets carried SARS-like virus”
    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2003/09/animals-chinese-markets-carried-sars-virus

    That is a heck of a lot of human-animal interaction. No need for a wet market or virus lab

    10

  • #
    Furiously curious

    Thailand or Vietnam dont seem to ever get a mention, and they have governments and bureaucracies, so their figures maybe ball park??
    Thailand 2950 confirmed 54 deaths 2665 recovered 228 active
    Vietnam 270 confirmed 0 deaths 222 recovered 48 active

    So what are they doing? Why arn’t they ever mentioned?

    This article claims East and South Asia are the nursery for influenza virus’, so maybe they have already been through this strain? Or these virus’ are so common there, that the population has a lot of immunity?

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13724-revealed-the-asian-source-of-the-annual-flu-epidemic/#ixzz6Ku0Bo9xo

    20

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Vietnam have had their eyes on the ball from early on.

      They jumped all over an early outbreak up north and had early border closure with China.

      50

      • #
        WXcycles

        They jumped all over an early outbreak up north …

        Via local area lock-down too. Now they’ve condemned themselves to fighting it in perpetual economic isolation Crazy stuff, they should have let it ‘immunize’ them when they had the chance, faster ‘n cheaper, no commie lock-down. Perhaps they thought it should be tested out on less than 97.3 million people, at least initially?

        😉 /s

        20

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        They wanted it to spread slowly.

        They also eat a lot of fish and this would keep hdl levels up and help with maintaining Vitamin D.

        The other issues that are present in other countries are also undoubtedly present there. The low infection rate and claim of zero deaths, make of that what you will.
        They don’t do much testing, so??

        10

  • #
    Raving

    A view from Quebec regarding the politics of reopening …

    “Why Legault feels it’s safe to reopen economy, even though Quebec hit hardest by COVID-19”
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-reopens-business-schools-why-1.5548127

    10

  • #
    Rick Kinsman

    “The Chinese Ambassador to Australia, Mr Cheng, described the Morrison government’s proposal for an inquiry as “dangerous” and accused Canberra of pandering to US instructions. He said Chinese people were upset with Australia and if the trend continued they could decide not to come as tourists or students, and not eat Australian beef or drink Australian wine.”
    Do us a favour will you Mr Cheng? Keep all your rowdy, [Snip] The Chinese people are not the problem it’s the CCP that are the problem you need to make a distinction between the two .]AD .

    20

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Reading the globalist cheer squad World Economic Forum website http://wef.ch tonight, it seems the Elite are using the wuflu as a huge enabler/overhaul of society globally for thier agenda. Who would have thought.

    There is a great map that lays it all out.

    If using a phone, enable the desktop site option in your browser, or the circle wont display

    https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000006O6EHUA0?tab=publications

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  • #
    Maptram

    “He said Chinese people were upset with Australia and if the trend continued they could decide not to come as tourists or students, and not eat Australian beef or drink Australian wine.”

    I wonder whether Mr Cheng includes beef and wine produced by Australian owned beef and wine properties as well as Chinese owned properties in Australia.

    20

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Article from the WEF – the plan by the globalists?

    https://www.ispionline.it/en/pubblicazione/how-covid-19-will-revolutionise-world-energy-markets-25834

    “In the future, oil consumption would not go back to the 100 mb/d that we used in 2019 as our working and transport habits will change permanently. The Covid-19 revolution will therefore completely reshape the energy arena.

    ……

    “To conclude on an optimistic tone, there will also be positive consequences. If we reduce travel in road and air transports, we will not only decrease oil consumption but we will also reduce emissions in some of the sectors for which the decarbonisation is more difficult.

    “This will have positive effect in our battle against climate change and will help us in reaching climate neutrality.

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    Bill In Oz

    Vitamin D has been mentioned in Passing.
    Here is Dr Malcolm Kendrick of Cheshire in the UK on Vitamin D3.
    In essence : It works ! It ‘has a potent effect on protecting endothelial cells. And damage to endothelial cells appears to be a key mechanism by which COVID creates the most severe, and potentially fatal, symptoms.:

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/28/covid-update-focus-on-vitamin-d/

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      Bill In Oz

      And in this context an other curly one :
      The human body uses Cholesterol
      To make D3 with the energy from sunlight.
      But if a person is on statins
      Then of course cholesterol levels are artificially low
      And so are D3 production levels even if we get out in the sun.
      Ummm…. How many older folk are on Stains again ?
      I get the feeling it is almost universal among older folk
      Which might explain why this CCP Covid disease is so damaging to older folk.

      Me I don’t take statins !
      And I do take D3 ~ 5000 IU a day..
      Seems to help avoid the flu as well
      🙂

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    WXcycles

    Can recommend John Cambell’s update video, plenty of meat in his stew.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJipbWKmoA

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    Broadie

    Might make your Mortality figures jump after the 24th March 2020

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf

    Should “COVID-19” be reported on the death certificate only with a confirmed test?COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have causedor contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II. (See attached Guidance for Certifying COVID-19 Deaths)

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